[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[st4nl3y]

when you wake up and open your eyes you'll notice that in order to recover 106btc, 10600 must be sold at 0.01 Actm is trading for what.. 2 weeks and only 40 shares sold (probably to ken himself) since 14.01 nobody has bought a single share! where do you think this is going.. when do you think investors will be able to trade their shares..july..november..?.I would say never

[minerpart]

Interesting CoinTerra update via Reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1waoos/cointerra_hot_air_update_engineering_and/

TL;DR CoinTerra is having problems.

This is the sort of development that seems to go by with little mention on here. We can only know our own company by seeing it in the context of this emerging technology market that we are a part of.

Bitcoin ASIC design and development is beset with setbacks. Delays are par for the course. Yet when we experience a delayed 28nm chip, Ken becomes a scammer. Is that even rational?



Since the time when we all invested in this company and it's 28nm eASIC, Ken has taken on a taped out custom 55nm and it's developers. Ken has made this UMC 55nm project - at no cost to us - part of our portfolio. Why would he do that? We are getting all of this added potential for nothing - no outlay. Ken could have gotton involved with this other project under a different company name as a side issue and kept us out of it.


My question for the doubters is:

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

[st4nl3y]

Interesting CoinTerra update via Reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1waoos/cointerra_hot_air_update_engineering_and/

TL;DR CoinTerra is having problems.

My question for the doubters is:

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

[minerpart]

Wasn't enough generated from the various IPOs?

Around 3million is my estimate. Ken has said we don't need these funds right now but we may if the price of BTC falls.



The shares are not selling because they are not priced to sell.

I can't get over how naive some people are on here. The shares have been put well above the ACtM all-time-high for a reason - so they do not interfere with early days trading. If Ken wanted to sell to raise 106BTC he would have put 53,000 of them up at 0.002 and they would be gone by now. They have been put up for a few reasons one of which is for Ken to exercise his right under corporate lien to sell the shares to recover ACtM losses. They are not priced to sell and they will be sold at some time in the future when news or developments makes 0.01 a reasonable price.

I would not buy them at 0.01 right now. The news and situation right now suggests a price of 0.004BTC per share and above for this company.

[minerpart]

My question for the doubters is:

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

Can someone else try because that answer makes no logical sense whatsoever. He had no choice?? Can you elucidate?

[Minor Miner]

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

because he is likely going to face the SEC on the illegal IPO at some point, and he can deal with that with lawyers (I am sure he appreciated all your donations to that legal fund).   BUT, what most people probably do not want to deal with is the FBI or the Treasury prosecuting them for fraud and income tax evasion because those federal agencies' win rate is in the high 90s and prison time is also in the high 90s.
So, he needs to try his damnest to get you guys something because if this is declared a scam, he needed to report and pay taxes on $6-10M (or in the press it would be coins X highest trading price ever to make the arrest seem more cool).   The best way to keep the really scary feds away?   Actually try and do what he promised so that the shareholders do not start to consider themselves "victims" and start the process that would lead to headlines and grandstanding.

[minerpart]

when you wake up and open your eyes you'll notice that in order to recover 106btc, 10600 must be sold at 0.01 Actm is trading for what.. 2 weeks and only 40 shares sold (probably to ken himself) since 14.01 nobody has bought a single share! where do you think this is going.. when do you think investors will be able to trade their shares..july..november..?.I would say never

Buying shares at 0.01 values this company at $100M US dollars. That is $100M for:

- 6 85 Gh/s Avalons - worth perhaps $3600 TOTAL
- a report of 55 nm mask purchased - market value ~$300k
- 28 nm easic design that obviously failed and had to be scrapped
- A CEO that intentionally deceived investors into believing functional miners were shipped in November
- No balance sheets, no cashflow statements, and no evidence of an ability to perform in the future

As I have said before buying shares at 0.00001 would be a plausible gamble.  But still one with a likely outcome of 100% losses.

I respect this summary. The shares are not worth 0.01 on current news I agree. They are worth 0.004 and above. So a market cap of 40Mill USD +. For investors that represents very very good gamble for a company that has shown it can take multi-million dollar orders and has two chips in production that will supply both the top-end of the 28nm market and the budget end with a high-performance 55nm die ASIC.

[mainline]

My question for the doubters is:

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

Can someone else try because that answer makes no logical sense whatsoever. He had no choice?? Can you elucidate?

Sure.
He has given you nothing.
Neither the 28nm chips he originally promised, nor the 55nm chips he promised more recently.

[minerpart]

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

So, he needs to try his damnest to get you guys something because if this is declared a scam, he needed to report and pay taxes on $6-10M

Largely absurd, speculative and incoherent. Not a convincing answer.

[Minor Miner]

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

So, he needs to try his damnest to get you guys something because if this is declared a scam, he needed to report and pay taxes on $6-10M

Largely absurd, speculative and incoherent. Not a convincing answer.

Why don't you expand on your comment puppet because it is 100% accurate.

[mainline]

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

So, he needs to try his damnest to get you guys something because if this is declared a scam, he needed to report and pay taxes on $6-10M

Largely absurd, speculative and incoherent. Not a convincing answer.

^^Self-referential statements aren't funny.

[st4nl3y]

My question for the doubters is:

Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

Can someone else try because that answer makes no logical sense whatsoever. He had no choice?? Can you elucidate?

IPO was for 28nm chips
no mention of 55nm
28nm intelliscam chips are going to be delayed and ken had no choice but to go for 55nm instead, because he can have them quicker.. and to keep the company alive. makes sense?

[Minor Miner]

My question for the doubters is:
Why has Ken given us shareholders (for no outlay) the added potential of the custom 55nm chip when he had no obligation to do so under the terms of the IPO?

because he had no choice?

Can someone else try because that answer makes no logical sense whatsoever. He had no choice?? Can you elucidate?

Maybe this is easier for you to understand Ken.   You should research this VERY carefully.
Illegal IPO, with promoting and pumping (possibly dumping) = SEC, probable fines, possibly short time prison.

Scam, where 100s of victims complain that you stole their money in a scheme that had no possibility of working and you continued to lie to these victims about the progress of the invest resulting in the victims losing a large portion of their money =  FBI, USPS Inspectors and Treasury Agents.  =  99.8% conviction rate and 99.6% federal prison sentence rate.

Is that simple enough for you slaughter?

You want to know how long they will investigate and chase you?  Start googling some of the penny stock scams (there are tons)  CMKM Diamonds comes to mind as a good one....

[minerpart]

Could you share how you come up with a value TODAY of $40M?  Claiming future sales, or mining revenue that don't exist now, and may never exist doesn't cut it.  For today's valuation the only thing you could do is estimate the cost to replicate what Ken has that might turn into those sales or revenue.  And my calculations put that well under $1M.

I'd love to see some real numbers that you use to rationalize your valuation.  I understand that it is difficult because Ken has failed to produce any credible financial statements, but I am curious about the bull case.  

You don't understand the concept of share issues if you think future earnings are not priced in to security value. Future earnings might not cut it for you but for Wall Street they do. Maybe Wall Street are wrong?

Your calculation, apart from being based on a false premise, is a bit clear of the mark considering we have several million in liquid assests.

I could quote you some real numbers that valued Sony at zero in 2012. It was making an annual loss for four years. Did share price reflect that loss of earnings  - yes. Did share price drop to reflect a value of negative 457Billion Yen? errr no.

[minerpart]

Is that simple enough for you slaughter?

lol - I've never been to the US and don't intend visiting soon, so unless extraordinary rendition is still practised and the actors have very bad eyesight I think I'm quite safe.

[Minor Miner]

Could you share how you come up with a value TODAY of $40M?  Claiming future sales, or mining revenue that don't exist now, and may never exist doesn't cut it.  For today's valuation the only thing you could do is estimate the cost to replicate what Ken has that might turn into those sales or revenue.  And my calculations put that well under $1M.

I'd love to see some real numbers that you use to rationalize your valuation.  I understand that it is difficult because Ken has failed to produce any credible financial statements, but I am curious about the bull case.  

You don't understand the concept of share issues if you think future earnings are not priced in to security value. Future earnings might not cut it for you but for Wall Street they do. Maybe Wall Street are wrong?
Your calculation, apart from being based on a false premise, is a bit clear of the mark considering we have several million in liquid assests.
I could quote you some real numbers that valued Sony at zero in 2012. It was making an annual loss for four years. Did share price reflect that loss of earnings  - yes. Did share price drop to reflect a value of negative 457Billion Yen? errr no.

I spent 8 years on wall street, why don't you explain it to me?   I will try and keep up.
What specific cash are you talking about?   Since you are calling it a Liquid Asset you cannot be referring to pre-orders since those are actually on your balance sheet as liabilities (it is not your money), I assume you are referring to the IPO proceeds.   Whatever is left of them is an asset (one that is declining though) and would be valued as such.   If you have masks completed (doubtful at this point) that would be worth around $550,000 until they are worth zero.    If you do not, then you actually have far less cash then you can imagine.
Seriously, Slaughter you need help.   Start asking for it before you end up in prison.

[minerpart]

I spent 8 years on wall street,

What was your job title?

[MrTeal]

when you wake up and open your eyes you'll notice that in order to recover 106btc, 10600 must be sold at 0.01 Actm is trading for what.. 2 weeks and only 40 shares sold (probably to ken himself) since 14.01 nobody has bought a single share! where do you think this is going.. when do you think investors will be able to trade their shares..july..november..?.I would say never

Buying shares at 0.01 values this company at $100M US dollars. That is $100M for:

- 6 85 Gh/s Avalons - worth perhaps $3600 TOTAL
- a report of 55 nm mask purchased - market value ~$300k
- 28 nm easic design that obviously failed and had to be scrapped
- A CEO that intentionally deceived investors into believing functional miners were shipped in November
- No balance sheets, no cashflow statements, and no evidence of an ability to perform in the future

As I have said before buying shares at 0.00001 would be a plausible gamble.  But still one with a likely outcome of 100% losses.

Actually there are 25M shares, 10M is just the public share number. A 0.01 share price would value it closer to a quarter billion USD.

[Entropy-uc]

Could you share how you come up with a value TODAY of $40M?  Claiming future sales, or mining revenue that don't exist now, and may never exist doesn't cut it.  For today's valuation the only thing you could do is estimate the cost to replicate what Ken has that might turn into those sales or revenue.  And my calculations put that well under $1M.

I'd love to see some real numbers that you use to rationalize your valuation.  I understand that it is difficult because Ken has failed to produce any credible financial statements, but I am curious about the bull case.  

You don't understand the concept of share issues if you think future earnings are not priced in to security value. Future earnings might not cut it for you but for Wall Street they do. Maybe Wall Street are wrong?

Your calculation, apart from being based on a false premise, is a bit clear of the mark considering we have several million in liquid assests.

I could quote you some real numbers that valued Sony at zero in 2012. It was making an annual loss for four years. Did share price reflect that loss of earnings  - yes. Did share price drop to reflect a value of negative 457Billion Yen? errr no.

Of course not.  Sony had assets with real sale value in the market.  That is called book value and it usually acts as a floor for stock prices.  Shares do trade under 1.0x book value, especially in cases where a company has fallen behind their competition or management is not trusted.  Since Ken has failed to produce any books it's very hard to estimate book value for this mess.  But I took a reasonable stab at it, which gives you 0.00001 for your shares.

You seem to think the stock should trade today as if it is next year and Ken has succeeded in every aspect of your fantasy.  He has a working 28 nm miner which has no competition so it's selling like hotcakes.  Bitcoin is still extremely valuable, and Ken has built a 10 MW mining factory that has more than 1% of the network.

With all that, the stock might be worth 0.004.  But where is the profit for the poor bastards that buy it today at your fantasy price?  Where is their reward for taking the spectacular risk that any of those miraculous things don't occur and they lose money?

I was hoping for a rational discussion, but I see that it is still beyond the capacity of posters here.

[minerpart]

Actually there are 25M shares, 10M is just the public share number. A 0.01 share price would value it closer to a quarter billion USD.

If you are using Dividend Yield as the core valuer of recieving shares you can discount the 15Mill private shares as they are not recieving any dividend. And they will not recieve any dividend until 25-50Mill USD has been paid out to investors. The full 'market cap' figure is thus not reflective of investor value. Shareholders invest for capital gains and dividend payout so the 15Mill are irrelevant until the guaranteed 0.0025 BTC per public share is paid out. At that time there will be a revaluation by the market.