[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[minerpart]

1) What will be reveal today in the weekly PR posting?

2) Will the CEO of Active Mining say that trading will begin?

3) Will the CEO of Active Mining say that there are new delays for trading to begin?

Most pointless post I've seen in ages.

[JimmyJazz]

Now some people may think a theorhetical chip that hasn't been taped out with a cost per chip prediction that ranges by 100% from a proposer who does not have the funds available to produce that chip is hard news but I would wonder at their sanity.

When he's selling the chip in bulk, selling 10TH/s mining rigs (55nm chip only) with it and running a substantial farm with his chip maybe we can pay him due respect as a competitor. Till  then we just get on with our own projects.

As previously said AM do have the funds to carry out such a project. They have been holding back dividends for some time and have been successful in the past and have most probably saved for a rainy day.

Pay him due respect as a competitor? We are talking about a company which within the BTC securities has actually produced and exceeded expectations. It is with out a doubt the most successful security out there.

However, that being said I do not own any shares - and do own ACTM. So this is where my priorities/hope is.

So.. How will Ken react to his biggest competitors latest update? What will he announce?
We say he holds his cards to his chest due to the competition etc.
Now its time to show the Royal flush.. if he has one.

[mainline]

...
So.. How will Ken react to his biggest competitors latest update? What will he announce?
We say he holds his cards to his chest due to the competition etc.
Now its time to show the Royal flush.. if he has one.

Wouldjabelieve Five Aces?

[VinceSamios]

Some hard news 4 Bob:

...
Specification
Process node: 40nm
Package type: QFN64 8mmx8mm (with another option of QFN64 7mmx7mm possible)
I/O: Standard SPI protocol with clk, in, out and cs.
Rated Hashrate: 12.8GHash/s per chip, with a wide range of overclock/downclock options
Rated Voltage: 0.72V, recommended voltage range is 0.55V-1V
Power Consumption: 0.2J/GHash low voltage, 0.35J/GHash rated voltage
...
Price range
0.49$/G-0.99$/G, depending on order size and delivery speed of choice.
...

As promises go, I like friedcat's better.

0.2w/GH at 40nm... wow... let's hope Ken can get proportionally efficient chips at 28nm... 0.1w/gh should be possible if friedcat can get 0.2w/gh on a 40nm

It doesn't work like that.  Bitfury's 55nm chips aren't half as efficient as today's 28nm chips.  They're *more* power-efficient

Yes because bitfurys chips have been designed better, hence my hope that ken can make the most of the power efficiency benefits of a smaller process and get down to the theoretical level of about 0.1w/gh

[minerpart]

As previously said AM do have the funds to carry out such a project.

Agreed, to get the chip production-ready by March we have to assume they do, but they are now actively looking for customers (or Partners as they say) to fund chip runs. Any order will have a 2 or 3 month wait so if a customer decides to wait until the chip is batch-ready i.e. March before they hand over their cash, they will then have a further 2 or 3month wait untill delivery. That's beginning of June.

Chips will be available for ordering once the functionality and yield rate are confirmed with testing on actual chips.

Orders are not yet being taken. Lets get back to this project once they actually start taking orders. They do not have enough funds from reading between the lines/do not wish to commit to funding production past batch 1. Further batches will arrive May or June - or probably beginning of Q3.

[sparky999]

AM have something in the order of $5-$10mill in bitcoins don't they? Whatever their reason for looking for partners is, it's most certainly not a funding issue.

[minerpart]

AM have something in the order of $5-$10mill in bitcoins don't they? Whatever their reason for looking for partners is, it's most certainly not a funding issue.

If that's true and the chip has those specs they surely would throw all of that money into it. Something doesn't add up imho. Or maybe they are accepting that even their own plans for their own chip can run into delays and stumbling blocks and (some of) that money could be lost? Success in this industry is not as easy to pull off as some people would hope.

[mainline]

...
Orders are not yet being taken. Lets get back to this project once they actually start taking orders. They do not have enough funds from reading between the lines/do not wish to commit to funding production past batch 1. Further batches will arrive May or June - or probably beginning of Q3.

Orders are not yet being taken for the simple reason that friedcat is not willing to scam as hard as Ken.
Ken sold pre-orders in his nonexistent 28nm chips like a boss.
Not just chips, completed miners, lol.

[drawingthesun]

AM have something in the order of $5-$10mill in bitcoins don't they? Whatever their reason for looking for partners is, it's most certainly not a funding issue.

For AM yes, however the owners (Friedcat, etc..) have closer to $50 - 100 million in Bitcoins, if they need to reinvest they certainly can.

[mainline]

...
0.2w/GH at 40nm... wow... let's hope Ken can get proportionally efficient chips at 28nm... 0.1w/gh should be possible if friedcat can get 0.2w/gh on a 40nm

It doesn't work like that.  Bitfury's 55nm chips aren't half as efficient as today's 28nm chips.  They're *more* power-efficient

Yes because bitfurys chips have been designed better, hence my hope that ken can make the most of the power efficiency benefits of a smaller process and get down to the theoretical level of about 0.1w/gh

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

[MrTeal]

Yes because bitfurys chips have been designed better, hence my hope that ken can make the most of the power efficiency benefits of a smaller process and get down to the theoretical level of about 0.1w/gh

Out of curiosity, why would you think that Ken would be able hit those kinds of numbers? So far every manufacturer of ASICs has been off on their specs and Friedcat hitting those numbers would be extremely impressive. So far on the 28nm process we've seen chips by Cointerra, KnC and HashFast, and all those companies are hitting around 1J/GH at the wall. It's not like those outfits are filled with incapable people, either.
From AnandTech

Coming into the ASIC market is CoinTerra, headed up by Ravi Iyengar, former CPU Lead Architect at Samsung’s Austin Research Center (SARC).  Ravi’s focus at SARC was on the CPU Mid-Core, including integer execution and special purpose registers (good for Bitcoin).  His history also includes helping design chips for the SGS4, as well as stints at Intel, Qualcomm and NVIDIA.  At CoinTerra he is joined by Jim O’Connor, VP of Engineering with a history of SOC design and Dr. Naveed Sherwani, CEO of Open Silicon.

Those guys haven't been able to hit 1J/GH at the wall on 28nm. 0.1J/GH even at the chip level would require a minor miracle.

[minerpart]

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken has taken on 2 in-house engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm with excellent specs. So get back into your chair.

[mainline]

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken has taken on 2 in-house engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm with excellent specs. So get back into your chair.

Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

And ... Did you mean: "proved their mettle"?  Or "proved they're metal"
Just trying to figure out what you're trying to say, since the first would be proven when the chips hash, and the second brings us back to moar Wizard of Oz quotes.

[minerpart]

Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

No it's a brand new project - 55nm full custom.

no, metal - they are cyborgs.

[kleeck]

No it's a brand new project - 55nm full custom.

Minerpart, I understand that you want to defend the company against really stupid statements, but mainline/crumbs can and will spout complete bullshit over and over ad nauseum. Even more so if you engage him. Let it go. The majority of us have him on ignore anyways and don't even know what ridiculous claims he is making unless he is quoted by someone else...

[mainline]

Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

No it's a brand new project - 55nm full custom.

no, metal - they are cyborgs.

You quoted the wrong part, let me help again:

...
Discovered his limitations a bit late, huh?  About half a year too late, from the looks of it

And ... Did you mean: "proved their mettle"?  Or "proved they're metal"
Just trying to figure out what you're trying to say, since the first would be proven when the chips hash, and the second brings us back to moar Wizard of Oz quotes.

[finlof]

re: friedcat 40nm


Thats not hard news - far from it. The opening disclaimer says specs and cost and delivery dates are subject to change. In other words this is a theorhetical chip. It hasn't been taped out and he has no funding to have is produced.

Keep bringing us the 'hard news'. lol Its far less substantial than Kens release from last week but lets ignore that shall we?

again I have to question your loyalty to this company and it's ever-changing product.  I understand you may be heavily invested and feel the need to cheer and attempt to drive the price up (what price of what shares available where?) so you can attempt to recover your investment, but why do you have to distort reality.  you have just said that friedcat's announcement is far less substantial then Ken's release.  again I have to ask what planet are you from?  did you read friedcat's post?  https://asktom.cf/index.php?topic=438359.0  His company's ability to make and deliver a product for a premium price is unmatched.  several of yall want to say that ActM most closely resembles ASICMiner because it will be a company that both sells mining equipment as well as mines for themselves.  If Ken is indeed going to finally get a chip out there (sometime in the 2nd qtr 2014?) he could do worse than trying to emulate friedcat's communication, organization, business model, etc.  you trying to make friedcat out to be either a liar or someone who uses a detailed post to describe his upcoming "theoretical" chip is nothing short of ironic.  i am starting to think those who say you are a sock or a Slaughter may be right...

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken Friedcat has taken on 2 in-house several engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm 110nm with excellent specs that has been selling for that last year. So get back into your chair.

FIFY

[kleeck]

re: friedcat 40nm


Thats not hard news - far from it. The opening disclaimer says specs and cost and delivery dates are subject to change. In other words this is a theorhetical chip. It hasn't been taped out and he has no funding to have is produced.

Keep bringing us the 'hard news'. lol Its far less substantial than Kens release from last week but lets ignore that shall we?

...

Several of yall want to say that ActM most closely resembles ASICMiner because it will be a company that both sells mining equipment as well as mines for themselves.  If Ken is indeed going to finally get a chip out there (sometime in the 2nd qtr 2014?) he could do worse than trying to emulate friedcat's communication, organization, business model, etc.  you trying to make friedcat out to be either a liar or someone who uses a detailed post to describe his upcoming "theoretical" chip is nothing short of ironic.  i am starting to think those who say you are a sock or a Slaughter may be right...

Please.  Let's keep one foot in reality.  The guy can't open his eyes for a publicity shot, can't write above grade-school level, and you think he'll hit the theoretical process efficiency?
ROFL.

Reality is Ken Friedcat has taken on 2 in-house several engineers who have already proven their metal with a taped out 55nm 110nm with excellent specs that has been selling for that last year. So get back into your chair.

FIFY

If we're being honest, FC did a great job giving up the strongest position in ASIC mining BY FAR. I was moderately invested in AM, and made out well by noticing FC's major oversights before the market, en mass, did. There is no excuse for him being so far behind the market. But I digress.

FC's communication has been bad. He has long stints of saying nothing and good luck getting a PM back from him.

As for his business model. Well, that is exactly why the share value of AM dropped through the dirt. His model is erratic. He went from building miners to focusing on a really cool, but probably not very lucrative cooling solution. He had a massive lead on any competition and ended up throwing it all away. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see FC enter the market again. He was a pioneer in this industry, so I'll give him props for that, but his business model went from "ZOMGAMAZINGCOMPANY" to "WTF IS HE THINKING!?!" and now back to "Maybe he can pull this off..."

[minerpart]

you have just said that friedcat's announcement is far less substantial then Ken's release.

For the product we are talking about - and we are talking about this 40nm chip not anything that FC has done before - this is indeed a far less substantial news release than one from Ken which mentions a chip that has been taped out. That is a fact. FC's chip is all on paper as far as we know. He does not mention any post-production stage. You are assuming a lot.

His company's ability to make and deliver a product for a premium price is unmatched.

You cannot - especially in this industry - measure someone's potential by what they have achieved in the past. This is a completely new project - new projects present new problems. As kleeck said, AM has had it's own setbacks along the way and a lot of people lost a lot of money in their slow and steady decline on BTC-TC. This 40nm chip is in it's very early stages, you might think FC is a better bet than ACtM but OK it's still a gamble. I like the odds right now on ACtM. You don't, and that's fine.

Edit - if FC has all the funds he needs I just wonder why he is looking for partners and customers months before the chip is ready? Why wouldn't he just get the chip fabbed and start selling when he has them? I think he knows how problematic this process can be and he knows there is a big risk of delays and wants to share that risk so that any losses are not just his own. This business is hard.

[mainline]

...
You cannot - especially in this industry - measure someone's potential by what they have achieved in the past.
...

It's slightly better than measuring someone's potential by what they have *not* achieved in the past.
Otherwise, Ken, having achieved exactly zilch*, would be the undisputed champ

*well, he did get ur monyz...