🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin

[GingerWallet]

Ginger Wallet Expands: CoinJoin Now Available in Spanish, Hungarian, and English

I don't use your wallet but I am guessing English was there from the start and this update is actually the addition of two new languages (not three), those being Spanish and Hungarian. Interesting choice of languages. With that, I mean Hungarian and not Russian, Mandarin, Hindi, Portuguese, etc. Do you have an unusually high userbase in Hungary or is this just a random choice and based on what your community of translators does?

Hi. Some of the developers are Hungarian, so the translation was readily available. We are working on adding more languages in the future. We’ll be releasing a new update soon that will include additional languages. Thank you for reaching out!

[JollyGood]

As Ginger Wallet is essentially a fork of Wasabi Wallet, it would should have had all of the main components of Wasabi Wallet in place including any languages when they released their fork. I used Ginger Wallet once to test their software but also have no recollection about their languages. I think with these small modifications (such as adding languages, not allowing users to change the default coordinator), over time their intention is to create distance between themselves and Wasabi Wallet as they move further away from the Wasabi Wallet source code to attract interest in their stand-alone software.

[GingerWallet]

As Ginger Wallet is essentially a fork of Wasabi Wallet, it would should have had all of the main components of Wasabi Wallet in place including any languages when they released their fork. I used Ginger Wallet once to test their software but also have no recollection about their languages. I think with these small modifications (such as adding languages, not allowing users to change the default coordinator), over time their intention is to create distance between themselves and Wasabi Wallet as they move further away from the Wasabi Wallet source code to attract interest in their stand-alone software.

Exactly. Ginger Wallet is taking a different direction from Wasabi Wallet, and it will soon become a distinct software with unique components. Quoting from our introductory article:

"We concluded with the Wasabi maintainer that our future directions were different, so we decided to create a fork of the Wasabi project. The fork was created recently after Wasabi v2.0.7.2, with no functional changes — just rebranding. Currently, both Wasabi and Ginger clients are compatible with the Ginger coordinator. However, this might change in the future, so I highly suggest downloading the Ginger Wallet client from our website."

Read more here.
https://medium.com/@molnardavid84/ginger-wallet-first-contact-1abc8d292abd

Regarding languages, this was far from a "small modification." It involved changing nearly 200 files in the repository and added a significant maintenance burden to the project.

By the way, what is your native language? Perhaps you could contribute a translation for us. Adding just one language is indeed smaller than the "small" you mentioned! 😊

[BlackHatCoiner]

"We concluded with the Wasabi maintainer that our future directions were different, so we decided to create a fork of the Wasabi project. The fork was created recently after Wasabi v2.0.7.2, with no functional changes — just rebranding. Currently, both Wasabi and Ginger clients are compatible with the Ginger coordinator. However, this might change in the future, so I highly suggest downloading the Ginger Wallet client from our website."

Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.

Apologies if this has already been answered.

[Pmalek]

Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.

I think one big reason is the profit side of things. Ginger wallet has made their coordinator the only one you can use with this software in one of their recent updates. You can't select a different coordinator and coinjoin with Ginger wallet. I remember that OP mentioned that the software uses 2FA, which is another security boost. Apparently, Wasabi wallet doesn't. Other than that, the two coinjoin apps should be pretty similar for now.

[GingerWallet]

🚀 New Release Alert! Ginger Wallet v2.0.14 is here! 🎉

✨ What’s New?

🌀 Resync Button: Quickly reinitialize your wallet!
💰 Manual Coin Control: Enhanced with detailed coin info.
🌍 Language Support: Now available in French 🇫🇷 & Simplified Chinese 🇨🇳.
🙏 Special thanks to @p2-b for the French translation! 💙

🌐 Visit us: https://gingerwallet.io
💬 Join the conversation: https://t.me/GingerWallet
👉 Check out the release: https://github.com/GingerPrivacy/GingerWallet/releases/tag/v2.0.14

📥 Upgrade now for a faster, smoother Bitcoin experience! ⚡️

[GingerWallet]

Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.

I think one big reason is the profit side of things. Ginger wallet has made their coordinator the only one you can use with this software in one of their recent updates. You can't select a different coordinator and coinjoin with Ginger wallet. I remember that OP mentioned that the software uses 2FA, which is another security boost. Apparently, Wasabi wallet doesn't. Other than that, the two coinjoin apps should be pretty similar for now.

The key distinction between GingerWallet and Wasabi lies in how coordinator selection and responsibility are handled. GingerWallet is designed to work out of the box with a default coordinator that maintained by a legal entity. This provides a streamlined experience for users by ensuring secure and seamless communication with a trusted entity.

In contrast, Wasabi does not include a default coordinator. Users must select one from the internet, placing the responsibility for this choice—and the associated risks—on the user.

Our approach reflects a fundamental difference in philosophy. By integrating a default coordinator, GingerWallet can take responsibility for its functionality and reliability. On the other hand, Wasabi prioritizes user choice but leaves the risks and responsibilities associated with that choice to the user.

We believe this distinction helps users decide which wallet aligns better with their needs and comfort level regarding security and convenience.

[BlackHatCoiner]

This provides a streamlined experience for users by ensuring secure and seamless communication with a trusted entity.

Certainly, but isn't the primary appeal of the coinJoin protocol that it's trustless-- that it doesn't require trust in the coordinator to function? Or do you believe there's still some risk involved in choosing a random coordinator for coinjoin?

There's been extensive discussion on this topic, and it would be valuable to read your perspective on it as well.

[Pmalek]

Certainly, but isn't the primary appeal of the coinJoin protocol that it's trustless-- that it doesn't require trust in the coordinator to function? Or do you believe there's still some risk involved in choosing a random coordinator for coinjoin?

Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick. It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does. WasabiCoordinator was also trustless, but it was discovered that they were slowly stealing their customer's bitcoin by charging higher coinjoin fees. In reality, you have to trust that the coordinator is honest and doesn't act maliciously most of the time. The alternative, learn how to code and read code and verify everything yourself. Now, how many people out of 1000 or 10000 know how to do that? 

[BlackHatCoiner]

Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick.

Being "trustless" is not only the best selling point of coinjoin. It's the only selling point. The fact that you can mix your coins without them leaving your wallet is the whole point, otherwise you can mix them more effectively, efficiently and cheaply.

It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does.

Certainly, but this applies to any software. If GingerWallet is found to be malicious and funds are stolen by black-hat hackers, the outcome remains the same, whether or not you've forfeited custody. Being open-source, we assume that such risks have been addressed as thoroughly as possible.

[JollyGood]

We have no idea what is going on a server level therefore though being trustless is the selling point and main attraction for coinjoin, the fact remains there is always a possibility of some form of data harvesting taking place. I am not stating categorically that it is happening with Wasabi Wallet and/or Ginger Wallet but the possibility remains.

Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick.

Being "trustless" is not only the best selling point of coinjoin. It's the only selling point. The fact that you can mix your coins without them leaving your wallet is the whole point, otherwise you can mix them more effectively, efficiently and cheaply.

It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does.

Certainly, but this applies to any software. If GingerWallet is found to be malicious and funds are stolen by black-hat hackers, the outcome remains the same, whether or not you've forfeited custody. Being open-source, we assume that such risks have been addressed as thoroughly as possible.

[BlackHatCoiner]

We have no idea what is going on a server level therefore though being trustless is the selling point and main attraction for coinjoin, the fact remains there is always a possibility of some form of data harvesting taking place. I am not stating categorically that it is happening with Wasabi Wallet and/or Ginger Wallet but the possibility remains.

Being trustless means you don't need to know what happens on the server side. The client side provides sufficient information. However, if the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.

I'd therefore place some trust to a coordinator with insufficient liquidity or bad reputation, as I think it's possible to successfully attack. I think Ginger would agree.

[Kruw]

If the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.

You are lying, you already know that clients are able to detect if the coordinator tries to partition its inputs:

There's always a small risk of getting Sybil attacked; it's just the way coinjoins are constructed. But, no, we have Mr. Absolute Truth here harassing anyone who dares to claim that Wasabi might not cure cancer.

Okay why can't you prove it then? You keep repeating this claim, but you haven't come up with any methods that would allow you to simultaneously exploit the trustless protocol in 3 different ways:

Your "solutions" don't protect you against a malicious coordinator

Why wouldn't my solutions protect me? Explain how I can still be Sybil attacked if I use the methods I described to you. Start with method 1, explain how the malicious coordinator could defeat it, then go on to method 2, explain how the malicious coordinator could defeat it, then go on to method 3 and explain how a malicious coordinator could defeat it.

Thanks to its design, the WabiSabi protocol is completely invulnerable to a Sybil attack and you've provided absolutely no evidence or argument otherwise.

Remember that it was proven that there is not just one, not just 2, but 3 different ways you can verify that the coordinator is not performing a Sybil attack!

My points proved conclusively that coordinators are trustless. You can even use all 3 anti Sybil methods together at once, you don't have to rely on just one:

- First, register your private coin to the coordinator. If it's accepted, then there's no Sybil attack.
- Second, ask your friend to register a coin to the same round. If it's accepted, then you've confirmed for a second time that there's no Sybil attack.
- Third, just to be absolutely sure, back out of the round during signing to check to see if the transaction was built to target you. If the transaction is created, you've confirmed for a third time that there's no Sybil attack.

[JollyGood]

In the end, if a user does not want to trust a software provider because of worry about what is transpiring at server level then nobody will be able to convince them otherwise. The Ginger Wallet owners have an interest in stating opinions that are going to be directly beneficial to them, however it will be interesting to read their views on this even though do not allow users to choose a different coordinator.

Being trustless means you don't need to know what happens on the server side. The client side provides sufficient information. However, if the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.

I'd therefore place some trust to a coordinator with insufficient liquidity or bad reputation, as I think it's possible to successfully attack. I think Ginger would agree.

[GingerWallet]

Introducing Ginger Wallet v2.0.14: Enhanced Features and Improved User Experience

https://medium.com/@martin.rimoczi/ginger-wallet-v2-0-14-new-release-a1dddbe79975

[GingerWallet]

This provides a streamlined experience for users by ensuring secure and seamless communication with a trusted entity.

Certainly, but isn't the primary appeal of the coinJoin protocol that it's trustless-- that it doesn't require trust in the coordinator to function? Or do you believe there's still some risk involved in choosing a random coordinator for coinjoin?

There's been extensive discussion on this topic, and it would be valuable to read your perspective on it as well.

There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the topic of trustlessness in the WabiSabi protocol. To clarify, we were not addressing the protocol's trustlessness, as both GingerWallet and Wasabi take this aspect very seriously. Both teams actively research and collaborate whenever a new vulnerability is discovered, ensuring that WabiSabi-based software remains secure. Over the past months, significant improvements have been implemented in both GingerWallet and Wasabi to enhance protocol security.

The Ginger and Wasabi teams remain in contact, alongside BTCPay Server, to share insights and address any issues that arise. If you discover a new vulnerability, we encourage you to report it privately through GitHub's "Privately reporting a security vulnerability" feature. Rest assured, such reports are promptly investigated and resolved across all WabiSabi-based clients as needed.

Our previous response was about the legal risks and responsibilities associated with operating a coordinator, not the trustlessness of the protocol. Historically, zkSNACKs ceased operating its coordinator due to legal risks that were deemed too high. Following this, Wasabi removed its default coordinator and enabled users to select their own, which was a thoughtful and prudent decision to manage risk and protect its developers. For more details, we recommend exploring Wasabi's blog or engaging directly on their forum.

At GingerWallet, we approached this challenge differently. Allowing users to configure their own coordinator in GingerWallet would have exposed us to similar legal risks, which is why we chose to maintain a single default coordinator. This approach allows us to take full responsibility for its operation and maintain a streamlined user experience.

From a technical standpoint, Wasabi and GingerWallet are no longer compatible. Wasabi introduced changes, such as removing the coordinator fee, that broke compatibility with the GingerWallet coordinator. Consequently, GingerWallet cannot connect to Wasabi's protocol, and Wasabi cannot connect to Ginger's coordinator.

We hope this explanation provides clarity and context regarding the differences between the two software approaches. If you have further questions, feel free to reach out!

[GingerWallet]

Did you know? The Ginger Wallet has 2FA! 🔐
Adding two-factor authentication (2FA) means your Bitcoin is safer than ever. With 2FA, your account requires both your password and a second code to log in—making it much harder for anyone else to access, even if they somehow have your password. It’s that extra layer of security that every serious crypto holder needs!
Haven't tried it yet? Download Ginger Wallet and activate 2FA to take control of your wallet’s security! 🚀 #GingerWallet #2FA #CryptoSecurity #Bitcoin
🌐 Visit us: https://gingerwallet.io
💬 Join the conversation: https://t.me/GingerWallet

[GingerWallet]

🌍 Expanding Horizons with Ginger Wallet! 🌍
At Ginger Wallet, we believe Bitcoin should be accessible to everyone, no matter where they are or what language they speak. That’s why we’re proud to offer our wallet in Spanish, French, Chinese, Hungarian, and English—some of the most widely spoken languages on the planet! 🌐
Localization isn’t just about translation; it’s about making sure that crypto tools are intuitive and accessible for people across different cultures. With these languages, we’re empowering millions to manage their Bitcoin with ease.
Ready to explore? Download Ginger Wallet and enjoy a user experience in your language! 🚀 #GingerWallet #Localization #Bitcoin

[DOGEtheFBI]

Does ginger support segwit addresses? am unable to restore one in ginger, yet sparrow/electrum work just fine.

[GingerWallet]

Does ginger support segwit addresses? am unable to restore one in ginger, yet sparrow/electrum work just fine.

Yes it allows to restore segwit addresses. Make sure to set the correct keypath before recovery.