Why is value betting against casino TOS?

[reefsea]

Honestly, I personally seem to rarely or even never find things like this when I bet because I consider things like this to be normal when in terms of betting or odds.
But there may still be a lot of gamblers who feel this way and there may also be those who try to hunt and outsmart things like this but it doesn't make sense to continue to find bets of this value.

The reasons may be many because of complaints but we don't know the full details because it could be just an alibi in the reasoning to make it seem as if the complaints are true but there is a slip where some bettors look for ToS weaknesses and take advantage of them.
For large sites and those with a good reputation I think when there are so many accounts that are banned or suspended they don't mess around with that decision because it's related to reputation.

[Sammye3]

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

I don't think I have experience this situation before, as I don't do much of casino but with the little knowledge I have, I don't think it's actually valid to ban a player who is value betting because it's all about observation and mathematical analysis to know when the odds are best in your favor. So how is that a crime?

The casino are against this kind of player because they reduce their revenue, lower their profits and shatter their odds. They feel threatened when such players come into play because they run the business for profit making and not for charity, so they do whatever it takes to make sure odds are manipulated in the casino's favor.

[Zlantann]

The odds are not set by the gamblers, the bookmakers do that, a gambler may choose his picks and coincidentally make selections of games which may fall under their own definition of what a value bet is, but his own intentions weren't for that purpose, so the bookmakers should cancel a bet in this format or prevent the gambler from making such combinations, because if they allow the bet in the first place, then the gambler win and they provide allegation of value bet, it's really insane to take that from them.

Was it the gambler who triggered or caused the glitches? The casino should take the blame for the problems they face and shouldn't blame the gambler for it. The gambler is not taking advantage, he is simply maximising an opportunity.  Will the casino complain if the gambler had lost when there is these glitches. Instead of penalising the gambler, the casino seeks a way to end the problems they face. If the win is a reasonable amount both parties could negotiate and come up with terms of settlement. Jus6 cancelling the bet without any compensation is wrong in my view.

[Cryptomultiplier]

Value betting takes away the house edge and makes the bettor be in charge of the mathematical edge over the gambling platform.
When a casino business decides to take measures to restrict a gambler suspected of value betting, they can take strict measures like restrictions on the bettors account, banning the bettor from further gambling activities and confiscation of the bettors winnings.

No casino business wants to lose money mostly when a gambler is given enough bonus yet they seem to always have an edge over the business, that's why such an issue can abound.

[Karl_3000]

The casino are against this kind of player because they reduce their revenue, lower their profits and shatter their odds. They feel threatened when such players come into play because they run the business for profit making and not for charity, so they do whatever it takes to make sure odds are manipulated in the casino's favor.

Among players that are winning, you will not see up to 5% of players, the rest are losing. As long as gambling sites have many users, it is money for the gambling sites because more people will lose money while gambling. There are value bets but betting sites do not use it to abuse their customers presence on their sites. Value odds are not common at all. And because a bettor won today does not mean he will not lose tomorrow .

[mirakal]

Value betting takes away the house edge and makes the bettor be in charge of the mathematical edge over the gambling platform.
When a casino business decides to take measures to restrict a gambler suspected of value betting, they can take strict measures like restrictions on the bettors account, banning the bettor from further gambling activities and confiscation of the bettors winnings.

No casino business wants to lose money mostly when a gambler is given enough bonus yet they seem to always have an edge over the business, that's why such an issue can abound.

Please be specific with your explanation. What kind of casino games are you referring to? This topic is about sports betting, so the ones that restrict players are called sportsbooks. Just trying to avoid confusion here. And when you mention house edge, that already sounds like you’re talking about slots or other luck-based games. Correct me if my assumption is wrong.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

Indeed. I definitely must have done the value betting based on its definition, but I have not been restricted before maybe because I have not win often times in such bets, but even if a gambler wins many times by value betting the sportbook should release his winning before restricting the persons account, perhaps it was their mistake and not the gamblers fault that they won such bet. Any sport book doing this should take blame for their own mistake and let players have their win.

[Jubilee58]

If a casino site would allow a bettor to predict and place bet successfully irrespective of value bet, the bettor should be paid. Any odd that is not acceptable on the casino site should not be displayed on the site.

I know casino sites have there own terms and conditions, and unless this value bet is enshrined in their terms and conditions otherwise, they have no right to restrict or close an account or refuse to pay a bettor who wins a game on the offence that is not in their terms and conditions.

[Maslate]

If a casino site would allow a bettor to predict and place bet successfully irrespective of value bet, the bettor should be paid. Any odd that is not acceptable on the casino site should not be displayed on the site.

I know casino sites have there own terms and conditions, and unless this value bet is enshrined in their terms and conditions otherwise, they have no right to restrict or close an account or refuse to pay a bettor who wins a game on the offence that is not in their terms and conditions.

But their justification is that the line wasn’t supposed to be there, that it was a mistake on their part. Yet they act like the bettor knowingly abused it, as if we’re all supposed to know the correct odds. That’s the hard part. It makes it feel like the casino is abusing us too. If the line was wrong and they still presented it, why only call it a TOS violation when the bet wins? Why not when it loses? Tricky, right?

[iv4n]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

They look for patterns... if your bets are often on odds that later drop, on slow-moving odds, and some other patterns. Simply saying, "This guy is picking better prices than the market," will trigger the system, and they will check your account more closely.

- betting at the exact second limits refresh

- checking markets extremely frequently

- always betting the same percentage of bankroll

…are clear signs of a professional.

I also find this very interesting:

What usually happens after detection? Depending on the bookmaker:
Soft books (Stake, Bet365, bwin, etc.): limit your stakes, delay your bets, restrict markets, or outright ban you. They protect themselves.

Sharp books (Pinnacle, SBO, etc.): They welcome value bettors — your “smart money” helps them fix bad odds faster.

You can also check "recreational vs value bettors" signs. While most of us bet on big games, favorites, and boosted odds, value bettors find value in their own way.

[Slow death]

Saw a newbie account in this forum complaining ( still spamming in an ANN thread) that his winnings were voided and his account got closed. The casino point it was because of value betting. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen that reason, so it made me wonder why casinos treat it as a violation.

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

Perhaps the first question you should ask yourself is:

Which betting sites state in their Terms of Service (TOS) that people shouldn't place value bets?

This way we could make a list of all the betting sites that prohibit people from placing value bets. Why am I talking about this? Because I've read many TOS from betting sites and I haven't seen them include this prohibition, which in my opinion doesn't make sense, because I highly doubt that many people profit from it. Regarding your question, the answer is simple: betting sites have no way of knowing if people are placing value bets because people simply bet based on the analyses they make, betting sites set odds based on their analyses, and the winner is the one who did the best analysis.

[KTChampions]

Saw a newbie account in this forum complaining ( still spamming in an ANN thread) that his winnings were voided and his account got closed. The casino point it was because of value betting. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen that reason, so it made me wonder why casinos treat it as a violation.

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

What's the point of discussing what shitty casinos write in their TOS? 
I've come across wording that almost explicitly states something like "this is an entertainment service and receiving income from it (=winning) is considered a violation of the ToS"  I don't think you should pay attention to the ToS of crappy casinos, or even to ToS in general. The most important thing is the reputation and reviews from real players. If they're good, I'll use that service.

[justdimin]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

I just learned what is value betting regardless of I have been into gambling over a decade. These all sound to me like this value betting might be another type of excuses from casino side to forfeit the winning amounts. In my opinion, casinos must have clear and elaborated explanation on what are value betting possibilities, which means what are practices would fall into the category of value betting in their terms and conditions and even after a gambler goes for such plays, then forfeiting the winning amounts cannot be complained about.

A reputable gambling site should not use value bet as an excuse of accusing their customers of cheating, value bet is not cheating in anyway.

When jurisdiction of casinos are differing, we cannot expect every casino to be having same type of rules and regulations against every gambling practices. Still, mentioning about misuses and malpractices in terms and condition and getting consent on it while signing up is more important if casinos want to build their reputation.

[danherbias07]

I don't know why they will do that, especially if it's their own mistake. They should keep track of the odds that are being released, and if it's a mistake, they will quickly suspend the line and fix it.

Imagine the long amount of time a sports bettor spends looking for value bets. For me, it's not really cheating unless he is really connected with the ones placing the odds or an inside is happening. If that's the case, then they must investigate their own instead of the sports bettor. Because there's a chance that one or two people are doing it at every online bookie, but they are playing honestly.

[Cointxz]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

For simplicity purposes. Value betting is not allowed since users is betting on match that have an error odds placement based on it’s statistical winning probability.

Casino hates that since they want gambler to bet with the house edge for them to make profit.

They are business after all and they indicate this on their ToS. Fighting over about how unfair is useless because casino creates their own rules which player have an option to not play under those rules.

[Somto9Light]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.
In one world, value bets odds are statistical errors in odds from the book makers end and if sport bettors keep betting on them, the outcome winning could be seen and violations of the bookmakers system.
This is just the way I think of value bet and how bookmakers treats it winnings.

If what you said is the right definition of value betting I would say that bettors have absolutely nothing to do with that, if there's anyone that need to be blame for such error I think the whole blame should go directly to the bookmakers because they are the ones in charge not bettors, So bettors does not have any business with such error. Though I haven't heard about value betting before to be realistic or does it mean that this only happen in casinos? Because I haven't encounter such thing ever since I started gambling till this time, on a more serous note if what you said here is true then i would say that it's unfair for a casino to do that.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Saw a newbie account in this forum complaining ( still spamming in an ANN thread) that his winnings were voided and his account got closed. The casino point it was because of value betting. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen that reason, so it made me wonder why casinos treat it as a violation.

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

Well, if I very well understand what value betting is, it's the act of betting in such a way that gives the bettor an edge over the bookmaker,, what this means in simply term is finding odds that are higher than they should be and betting on them..

How is this a crime if I may ask? Asking and I am curious because this is probably the first time I am getting to know that value betting is a crime, I do this alot, infact, there are some nights when if I mean business with betting, I could stay up searching for odds with good value to bet on, why s should casinos treat this as a crime when they are the ones that set the odds themselves and we are simply betting on their own mistakes? Or were they expecting the bettors to bet to lose on purpose?

[palle11]

Guys, do you find these value bets?
If so, do you remember what the last one was?

I can't find these value bets, but can the casino ban a user if they find too many of them or just one or two?
It's a little difficult to judge cases like this because the bookmaker set the odds, and all they would have to do is adjust or cancel them in this case, right?

It is simple. The matter is falling on the bettor as if he made the odd himself. Everyone wants to profit in their enterprise and there is no way a bettor will know a game that will surely be successful. If he sees a bet that convinces him to bet and he goes on to bet on it, then how would a casino come back to say it is cheating or value bet. So they want to keep winning while bettors keep hitting the rock because of low odds with low chances.

So if they refuse to pay winning because of book makers mistake , what now happens to the bettor staking money, that's the money used to stake? Are they going to refund it? What then happens to the winning on the exact odd? I mean, they should be able to calculate the winner's payment based on the odd they feel is the accepted odd. They should do the calculation and deductions then make payment. If they don't do such, it means they are not being fair because the bettor didn't set the odds himself.

[Eternad]

I don't know why they will do that, especially if it's their own mistake. They should keep track of the odds that are being released, and if it's a mistake, they will quickly suspend the line and fix it.

Imagine the long amount of time a sports bettor spends looking for value bets. For me, it's not really cheating unless he is really connected with the ones placing the odds or an inside is happening. If that's the case, then they must investigate their own instead of the sports bettor. Because there's a chance that one or two people are doing it at every online bookie, but they are playing honestly.

There’s nothing we can do about this since casino consider it as taking unfair advantage by looking on the specific match with errors.

There’s a lot of betting option available so there’s no need to waste time carefully looking at it while knowing that casino will ban you if you get caught.

Even the casino you are promoting have a written terms about this value betting under the premise of “taking unfair advantage”.

[acroman08]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

I don't know their exact process for deciding whether someone is value betting or not, but what I know is that value betting is basically looking for odds that are higher than they should be. So maybe they are looking for people who usually bet on games where the odds go down later on. I am not a huge sportsbettor, so my knowledge is very limited, but that is how I think they usually decide whether someone is value betting.