Why is value betting against casino TOS?

[Eternad]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

I don't know their exact process for deciding whether someone is value betting or not, but what I know is that value betting is basically looking for odds that are higher than they should be. So maybe they are looking for people who usually bet on games where the odds go down later on. I am not a huge sportsbettor, so my knowledge is very limited, but that is how I think they usually decide whether someone is value betting.

AFAIK, this value bets are resulted to error on odds placement. The initial odds when the line is not yet moving is when this error occurred and that’s what value betting players looking since not all sports market received a lot of bets to make the line move frequently.

Casino can spot them through players winning rate records and the odds they are taking on each of their bet.

The betting history of the high winning percentage player will show their betting pattern.

[Dogedegen]

My opinion is I am a gambler. I am looking to make a bet on a game and I am just making a bet that they offer. It's not my job to make sure the odds are correct, I don't really care. I am just looking to make a sportsbet.

If they offer the bet I believe the fault is on them. Their team should be consistently checking the odds and making sure they are right. IMO if they aren't it would be so that they have a reason to not pay out.

Someone is free to criticize my opinion and explain to me why I am wrong, but for now I see it no other way.

Yes agree with you, I wrote about it here. If they shift the blame on me, but if I lose this value bet then I don't get a refund then it is complete abuse. It seems to be a targeted action where they want abuse this situation to reject to pay out winnings. We must consider and jointly refuse such rules because if gamblers do allow them to continue to be used they will appear in more places. On an individual basis a gambler should not accept it and immediately stop playing on this platform. But all of us here and in other places where gambling is discussed must always take a strong position against this and teach others.

What's the point of discussing what shitty casinos write in their TOS? 
I've come across wording that almost explicitly states something like "this is an entertainment service and receiving income from it (=winning) is considered a violation of the ToS"  I don't think you should pay attention to the ToS of crappy casinos, or even to ToS in general. The most important thing is the reputation and reviews from real players. If they're good, I'll use that service.

It is possible that a casino has good reviews and reputation and still a bad ToS though so in this case that does not protect someone who places value bets. I still think that people should read the ToS even if the reputation is good. Sometimes they sneak in things there that were not before and one can find all kinds of crazy stuff in here.

[Findingnemo]

Value betting is so hard to prove that it actually happened or it's just a fake claim to avoid paying the rewards. But value betting is restricted by the casinos to save the bankroll from misplaced odds that will be helpful in the long run and the casino got their own way of identifying the value bettors so if someone is contantly doing that it causes loss for the casino and they are exploiting a mistaken odd so casinos hates it and ban or restrict the players.

[₿itcoin]

The casino point it was because of value betting. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen that reason, so it made me wonder why casinos treat it as a violation.
I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?
Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

what you call value betting  meaning when you find odds or lines that give you an edge is often confused with arbitrage, hedging  or advantage play. I have seen many places where unfair wagering techniques &  advantage play are prohibited, even though it is not generally fraudulent or illegal

When a casino notices that a user is winning above average over a long period of time, or is making bets that consistently use positive expected value or odds odds, their watchdog bells go off. They start thinking deeply about such dubious betting tactics

Many casinos include vague clauses in their terms &  conditions, such as irregular betting practices, abuse of bonuses  or abusive betting practices, which give them great power  can void your bet in the event of a big win  even if you are not breaking any laws

[Alpha Marine]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.

This is not what value betting is. Value betting is betting on games where the odds are undervalued.
It is when the bettor takes a game where the chances of that option happening are undervalued. If the bettor, after his analysis, believes the chance of the outcome happening is 40% and the bookmaker believes its 60% and gives the odds accordingly, I believe that is what value betting is.

In today's game, I believe Newcastle's chance to win is undervalued. Their odds should be between 1.8 and 1.9, but they have odds of about 2.4, and a few days ago, it was even higher than that.

Except the betting or casino company has other evidence of cheating, I don't see a reason why value betting should be a crime. Having very good knowledge of the game and taking my time to do an analysis is not a crime. The companies just find different kinds of means to protect themselves. And it's not like the player is guaranteed to win; he is still taking a risk.

[rdluffy]

...

It’s not actually illegal to do value betting, but it is against the casino’s TOS. The tricky part here, for those who still don’t fully get what value betting is, you’re basically looking for odds or lines that are mispriced so you can take advantage of them. And when you win more than usual because of that, the casino sees it as abuse, which is why they use the TOS to justify freezing accounts and banning users.

There’s really no fairness in that setup since they’re only protecting their business interests. If they truly believed it was a mispriced line, then losing bets should be refunded too. But that never happens. I haven’t seen anyone here say they were refunded for a losing value bet. What we mostly see are complaints about accounts getting locked because of that value betting issue.

To be perfectly honest, I find it quite difficult to define a value bet, hehehe 

Can anyone here give a real, current example of a value bet?
It's not that simple to determine the percentage chance of a particular bet happening

[Nathrixxx]

What we ought to know from here is the casino's own definition of what value bet is, this will definitely give us the bearing in knowing what to do and not once we are playing our bets on their platform with the kind of selections we made, but to be sincere on this note, not every gambler may understand what this comprises except it was being spelt out emphatically on their ToS.

[Odusko]

What we ought to know from here is the casino's own definition of what value bet is, this will definitely give us the bearing in knowing what to do and not once we are playing our bets on their platform with the kind of selections we made, but to be sincere on this note, not every gambler may understand what this comprises except it was being spelt out emphatically on their ToS.

Some casinos may overlook value bet odds winnings same way their accept the losses of gambler's from value betting odds, but what we have not really understood is why and which odds are considered value bets odds, sometimes those value bets odds are typically errors calibration if odds system and the bookmakers expect bettors to report such errors instead exploiting it in the long run to they own advantage.

[Dogedegen]

To be perfectly honest, I find it quite difficult to define a value bet, hehehe 

Can anyone here give a real, current example of a value bet?
It's not that simple to determine the percentage chance of a particular bet happening

Well people have already spoken a bit about this. It often considered to be bets that have incorrect odds that benefit the player in some way. So for example the real odds for a pick should be 2.0 but because of some error it is 3.5 when you placed it. There are many reasons why such an error can happen but that is to be ignored. Generally later they find out that the odds were wrong by doing the calculations on them again, comparing it to other countries and stuff like that. I am not a fan of this at all because there is nothing wrong with it. If an user can be very precise and locate many value bets then they just seem very dedicated and have good analysis of games that are being played and odds that are being given. Nothing is malicious here and any issue from the odds the casino should expect because it is their responsibility.

What we ought to know from here is the casino's own definition of what value bet is, this will definitely give us the bearing in knowing what to do and not once we are playing our bets on their platform with the kind of selections we made, but to be sincere on this note, not every gambler may understand what this comprises except it was being spelt out emphatically on their ToS.

Since most people don't even know the real definition and there is not exactly complete agreement on it that makes the case for disallowing value bets even more weak.

[Ivystar5]

I'm also wondering why a sportbook maker will be mad at an individual using the opportunity they have to make extra gains basically it's not an individual fault that they lack accuracy on the odds, so why is it against their TOS, I also believe that they might have an intention to make profit from it by over valuing a particular odd for people to go against the right person to win, because their is a common psychology of picking a lower odd because of its possibility of right outcome but then they ban someone for it. The casino should be soured 

[Porfirii]

I'm also wondering why a sportbook maker will be mad at an individual using the opportunity they have to make extra gains basically it's not an individual fault that they lack accuracy on the odds, so why is it against their TOS, I also believe that they might have an intention to make profit from it by over valuing a particular odd for people to go against the right person to win, because their is a common psychology of picking a lower odd because of its possibility of right outcome but then they ban someone for it. The casino should be soured 

It would be the oddsmakers lack of accuracy, but that's another issue. They could be mad at one individual if he/she consistently picked value bets and if he/she earned substantial sums from such activity. I don't think the average Joe would have any problems for isolated value bets, but when the bettor is found to be trying to exploit it, I understand the reason why it is not admissible according to TOS.

[Cantsay]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.
In one world, value bets odds are statistical errors in odds from the book makers end and if sport bettors keep betting on them, the outcome winning could be seen and violations of the bookmakers system.
This is just the way I think of value bet and how bookmakers treats it winnings.

With what you mentioned here this isn’t really the bettor’s fault, it’s the bookie’s because they should make their system more efficient to spot such odds and make the appropriate corrections.

Let’s say I was an occasional bettor who accidentally made a bet on such an odd, does that mean that the bookmakers would also void such a bet? This just goes to prove the whole “bookmakers don’t want you to win” argument, because rather than limit or void bets look for a better way to fight it. If a value bettor should lose their bet will the bookmaker still void the bet? Won’t they just mark it as a loss?

P.S. I don’t know why I kept typing “casino” instead of “bookmaker” I think lots of casino games have been messing with my brain.

[EluguHcman]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.
In one world, value bets odds are statistical errors in odds from the book makers end and if sport bettors keep betting on them, the outcome winning could be seen and violations of the bookmakers system.
This is just the way I think of value bet and how bookmakers treats it winnings.

If that’s your definition of it, then would the blame really fall on the gambler? What if the gambler is only using one sportsbook and isn’t aware of what the correct odds should be, and he just sees an attractive line so he takes it. Would that be his fault if he ends up winning? And what if the bet loses, since you’re saying it could be an error, will the bookie refund the bet then?

I am on the same page with you @Distinctin because it is obvious that the player is only picking the odds that is being provided on the bets table which should be expected to had been uploaded by the bookmaker.

There is no cheat of the bettor about it and perhaps the bettor did not pick a probability that is not in the system. So, it is really questionable where the better violated in the game.

I guess such manipulative scenario should be sanctioned to be system or bookmakers errors.

[Odogwu-Blockchain]

The odds are not set by the gamblers, the bookmakers do that, a gambler may choose his picks and coincidentally make selections of games which may fall under their own definition of what a value bet is, but his own intentions weren't for that purpose, so the bookmakers should cancel a bet in this format or prevent the gambler from making such combinations, because if they allow the bet in the first place, then the gambler win and they provide allegation of value bet, it's really insane to take that from them.

It's the fault of any casino platform to not automatically refresh the odds whenever it's changed, players shouldn't be held responsible or been attacked by a casino platform for becoming successful with odds that they refused to address before bets been placed.

What makes me weak most times is that, casinos had always won this kind of allegations and never credit a player for winning through this value betting, it doesn't make sense to me, it simply sounds like a complete intimidation and oppression on a gambler to hide their voice.

It's not fair at all.

[Cantsay]

I'm also wondering why a sportbook maker will be mad at an individual using the opportunity they have to make extra gains basically it's not an individual fault that they lack accuracy on the odds, so why is it against their TOS, I also believe that they might have an intention to make profit from it by over valuing a particular odd for people to go against the right person to win, because their is a common psychology of picking a lower odd because of its possibility of right outcome but then they ban someone for it. The casino should be soured 

Owning a casino or a bookmaker is a business so they’ll try as much as possible to reduce the number of lucky bettor they have in their site and also those smart enough to employ some kind of smart tactics to keep them at an advantage and that’s why you see them come up with all these kind of bullshit.

I’ve never seen a bookmaker cancel or void a game that was lost because they noticed something unusual about the bets, it’s always those that have won theirs whose bet get voided. I don’t know what to say again but I think they are a lot of areas bookmaker need to work on when it comes to how to treat their users because you can’t just be treating them like trash because you know and believe that you have others who’d come and replace them due to addiction. 

In as much as a casino is a business I feel there should be a things set up to protect their users because as it stands now nothing is protecting the users, anything they say is final and even the mediators don’t do too much because their hands are tied.

[TopT3ns]

I'm also wondering why a sportbook maker will be mad at an individual using the opportunity they have to make extra gains basically it's not an individual fault that they lack accuracy on the odds, so why is it against their TOS, I also believe that they might have an intention to make profit from it by over valuing a particular odd for people to go against the right person to win, because their is a common psychology of picking a lower odd because of its possibility of right outcome but then they ban someone for it. The casino should be soured 

Owning a casino or a bookmaker is a business so they’ll try as much as possible to reduce the number of lucky bettor they have in their site and also those smart enough to employ some kind of smart tactics to keep them at an advantage and that’s why you see them come up with all these kind of bullshit.

I’ve never seen a bookmaker cancel or void a game that was lost because they noticed something unusual about the bets, it’s always those that have won theirs whose bet get voided. I don’t know what to say again but I think they are a lot of areas bookmaker need to work on when it comes to how to treat their users because you can’t just be treating them like trash because you know and believe that you have others who’d come and replace them due to addiction. 

In as much as a casino is a business I feel there should be a things set up to protect their users because as it stands now nothing is protecting the users, anything they say is final and even the mediators don’t do too much because their hands are tied.

Gambling business is actually all about money, yet it is also important to treat betters fairly. The casinos or the bookmakers can surely make a losing bet to win then they void the winning bet themselves, which generates the feeling of distrust and destabilises the system. Consumers should be able to possess better safeguards and not simply taken up by possibly malignant policies. The improved safety of the users must also be at the forefront of consideration since most of them are likely to be susceptible to addiction.

[rbynxx]

I already have an idea what value betting is, but I want to hear from others who might have dealt with this. How does a casino decide someone is value betting, and what usually triggers it?

Maybe we’re doing something that counts as value betting without knowing, so it’s better to talk about it here and share experiences.

To be honest it was their mistake in the first place and to void and close the account was way too much I guess. They should have honored the actual win of that player and never closed the account. You can't take away that keen eyes if he just knows how to value that good of a bet.

[Cookdata]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.
In one world, value bets odds are statistical errors in odds from the book makers end and if sport bettors keep betting on them, the outcome winning could be seen and violations of the bookmakers system.
This is just the way I think of value bet and how bookmakers treats it winnings.

Why am I see seeing this as reverse cheating from casino. Since it's an error, it definitely not the player effort. I notice my casino has a live odd that changes as game changes, I do see 2.00 odd for a team that is leading gives the odd, that means what I was seeing was value betting and it's error from the casino but then why wouldn't the casino deduct the odd and settle the final score or they want to avoid means to pay the people that won, that's another level of cheating from the casino.

If use any casino and they tel me that I did this when I never did it intentionally, it was never my intention to take advantage of odd, I will comfortably pick 1.6 if I don't see big odd or even lower if that's what I want to bet on that day. Why punish users for your own mistake when you can actually fix it, that's not fair if you ask me.

[Darker45]

And if a bettor gets it right, I believe he/she won't be banned right away. The reason somebody is banned is the pattern. If a bettor is consistently making money out of value bets, usually +EV, there's no reason why the bookmaker would want to retain him/her. He/she's a liability. The business is losing rather than making money.

If the person know his or her right, he should sue the gambling site, especially if the gambling site did not allow him or her to withdraw his winning. I know some gambling site can be that dubious. Value bet is not something wrong at all, it is the gambling site that should amend loopholes instead. Also gambling sites should try as much as possible to avoid loopholes.

Overall, I believe it's not the bettor's fault. But to go as far as suing the gambling site would mean spending so much. Could mean flying out of the country, hiring a lawyer, and going through other legal hassles. If the prize is in the millions, it might be worth it. For ordinary gamblers, however, all they can do is raise a ticket and make some noise.

In the end, there might even be a sneaky clause in the ToS which fully provides the company the right to do all this. And that's agreed with the user upon signing up. After all, value bets are quite common. It's just that it's usually -EV, which favors the site and disadvantageous to bettors. It's totally unfair that when it's wrong odds and they favor the bettor and they're winning, it's only the time betting sites go strict on value bets.

[Text]

honestly I also don’t get why some casinos treat value betting like it’s some kind of criminal act, for me if the site posts a line or an odd that’s on them, we’re just bettors we see a number we like, we take it, there’s no magic formula unless the bettor is exploiting something like obvious technical glitches or intentionally hammering error lines the second they appear, closing accounts or voiding legitimate bets feels more like the casino protecting their own mistake instead of enforcing a real rule.