Why is value betting against casino TOS?

[FinneysTrueVision]

I haven’t seen a casino that specifically mentions value betting in their TOS, although there is usually some vague language that allows casinos to ban or restrict you for just about anything they don’t like.

I imagine their reasoning is they believe that you are exploiting a loophole that gives you an unfair advantage against them. You probably wouldn’t get banned if it is just a one off situation, but if it’s done repeatedly and systematically, they might consider that an irregular betting pattern.

It’s sort of like arbitrage betting. It may not be wrong inherently, but it’s still not allowed in most casinos.

[Natalim]

I haven’t seen a casino that specifically mentions value betting in their TOS, although there is usually some vague language that allows casinos to ban or restrict you for just about anything they don’t like.

You cannot see that specifically, they line it like this.

https://www.cloudbet.com/en/help/rules

Cloudbet reserves the right to void any bet at any time if it deems the bet to have been made in a fraudulent manner.

All bets will be accepted or rejected purely at Cloudbet's discretion. In-Play bets may be subject to a short delay before they are accepted and/or they will be kept pending during dangerous situations at Cloudbet's discretion. If there is an obvious error in the odds or limit of a market, bets on that market may be voided. If for any reason a bet is accepted Cloudbet reserves the right to deem the bet void if it determines that an advantage has been gained.

That one is from Cloudbet, not sure about other casinos, but I’m using it as a reference so we at least have a picture of how it looks. According to them, it’s at the casino’s discretion. Your bet can be voided during or even after the game is already concluded. And that “at their discretion” part is something we really can’t contest because we agreed to their terms.

[mirakal]

You cannot see that specifically, they line it like this.

In that case they shouldn’t even call it value betting. They should just call it abusing mispriced odds so people don’t get misled. Because value betting is understood differently by others, they think of it as finding the true value versus the implied one… not this nonsense.

But since it all falls under their discretion, it’s not really fair. So the best thing is just hoping we don’t run into mispriced odds at all, because it’s discouraging when you win, only to check later and see the bet got voided.

[Free Market Capitalist]

That one is from Cloudbet, not sure about other casinos, but I’m using it as a reference so we at least have a picture of how it looks. According to them, it’s at the casino’s discretion. Your bet can be voided during or even after the game is already concluded. And that “at their discretion” part is something we really can’t contest because we agreed to their terms.

That is an abusive rule that any decent regulator should consider null and void because it is illegitimate. You can put in the Terms of Service that I have to donate a kidney to you if you want, but that doesn't make that rule legal, no matter how much I accept it.

If the house screws up with the odds, it must take responsibility and not treat players like criminals, abusing its power on top of that.

[Natalim]

That one is from Cloudbet, not sure about other casinos, but I’m using it as a reference so we at least have a picture of how it looks. According to them, it’s at the casino’s discretion. Your bet can be voided during or even after the game is already concluded. And that “at their discretion” part is something we really can’t contest because we agreed to their terms.

That is an abusive rule that any decent regulator should consider null and void because it is illegitimate. You can put in the Terms of Service that I have to donate a kidney to you if you want, but that doesn't make that rule legal, no matter how much I accept it.

We might see it that way, but they still have the license to operate. If their judgment is correct then there’s no problem, but with that kind of setup we’re always at a disadvantage. All we can do is hope the casino is honest and protects its reputation, since this casino is one of the OGs in the crypto gambling industry.

If the house screws up with the odds, it must take responsibility and not treat players like criminals, abusing its power on top of that.

Agree to that, but like I said, its on the TOS. ( how can we fight it?)

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Basically sport bettors shouldn't take up bets that have odds that is insanely higher than it expected, let say that a game that ought to carry originally 2.0 odds listing odds that is close to 3.50, this is definitely an extra value for that bet and if the bettor keep picking such games with value bets, indirectly the book makers sees that as cheating.

But why punish a gambler when he wasn't the one who fixed the odds on the casino? But only found opportunity in the odds while analyzing it using all necessary parameters of gambling. Because it will be very unfair for a casino to void the bet a gambler made and won, simply because the casino alleged it was a value bet, but will fail to refund the gambler when he/she gambles on same value bet and lost his bets. Or does it mean casinos are only okay with seeing people place bets of alleged value bets and lose?
Because I personally believe that despite their are factors that can help a gambler identify a value bets, it is not always easy to win, since luck also plays a major role in the success of each bets been made.

[stadus]

But why punish a gambler when he wasn't the one who fixed the odds on the casino?

We call it unethical, but it’s not illegal on their side, so they can void bets anytime they think it was abused. And we can’t really complain if they abuse that power because at the end of the day, we’re the ones using their platform to place bets. Their rules have to be followed. If we don’t like their rules, then we just move to another sportsbook. Simple as that.

[Wapfika]

But why punish a gambler when he wasn't the one who fixed the odds on the casino?

We call it unethical, but it’s not illegal on their side, so they can void bets anytime they think it was abused. And we can’t really complain if they abuse that power because at the end of the day, we’re the ones using their platform to place bets. Their rules have to be followed. If we don’t like their rules, then we just move to another sportsbook. Simple as that.

We don’t call it as an abused if that’s the rules set on their sportsbook before the players made a bet. Same on sports when organizers set additional rules or adjust the current rules to balance the game.

Sportsbook create that rules to protect themselves against this error that cost them money if exploited by players.

Gambler that keep betting on this specific matches knowing that casino is against is forcing their own rights to the casino which we all know that will not work if there’s a rule set already on the ToS.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

But why punish a gambler when he wasn't the one who fixed the odds on the casino?

We call it unethical, but it’s not illegal on their side, so they can void bets anytime they think it was abused. And we can’t really complain if they abuse that power because at the end of the day, we’re the ones using their platform to place bets. Their rules have to be followed. If we don’t like their rules, then we just move to another sportsbook. Simple as that.

I honestly don't think this excuse sound good enough bud, what happened to consumer rights?
Well, I don't know well and much about online services and how users, customers get protected but in the offline world, theres that which is known as consumer right, what this mean is that as a service provider, you can't just make rules as it pleases you and displeases the customers who are the consumers, there is always a balance which ensures that both the service provider and the customer are both satisfied, and if at any point in time the customer feels their right is being abused by the service provider, they can sue the provider of the service.

There have to be some laws guiding the right of online gamblers to ensure that gamblers do not go in for a mistake made by the casino/sportbook itself, if such does not exist, then I don't know what to say..

[Astvile]

But why punish a gambler when he wasn't the one who fixed the odds on the casino?

We call it unethical, but it’s not illegal on their side, so they can void bets anytime they think it was abused. And we can’t really complain if they abuse that power because at the end of the day, we’re the ones using their platform to place bets. Their rules have to be followed. If we don’t like their rules, then we just move to another sportsbook. Simple as that.

I honestly don't think this excuse sound good enough bud, what happened to consumer rights?

Casinos are in the right side here bro IMO, first of all once you registered or entered a casino you agreed to play by their rules and Value Betting is included on things they prohibit. As long as the casino is not cheating the odds intentionally consumer rights can't protect you, you are playing by their rules.

[Vaculin]

Casinos are in the right side here bro IMO, first of all once you registered or entered a casino you agreed to play by their rules and Value Betting is included on things they prohibit. As long as the casino is not cheating the odds intentionally consumer rights can't protect you, you are playing by their rules.

I agree with that. We can even confirm it through their odds provider. I’m sure a single odds provider supplies multiple casinos, so if one casino has a wrong line, the others using the same provider would show the same mistake. And they would also void those bets.

That’s what we should be looking at to confirm if it was a real error and not something they just made up to cheat gamblers.

[freedomgo]

There have to be some laws guiding the right of online gamblers to ensure that gamblers do not go in for a mistake made by the casino/sportbook itself, if such does not exist, then I don't know what to say..

The gambling industry really doesn’t offer much protection on the gambler’s side. It all depends on where the casino gets its license. If they operate offshore or in a country with very lax regulations, then that’s the limit of your protection. And truth is, casinos prefer licenses from these lax jurisdictions because it looks good on paper “licensed casino” but most of the advantage is on their side. The regulators don’t really enforce strong rules to protect customers.

So in the end, the judgment falls on us. If we read the terms, check where the casino is licensed, and still decide to play, then we can’t complain when they enforce the rules we agreed to during sign-up.

[bhadz]

It's basically because they're being taken advantaged of the odds they provide to the gamblers. I don't know how to find these and so those who are finding them are actually taking time in finding those. I think the bookies should blame the providers and these value bettors are probably just also waiting for some of those bets to have that value greater than it actually is. And when they see that, before the odd changes, they're quick to place their bets before the bookie actually realizes that it's not the usual odds that they should have made for those specific games.

[Dogedegen]

I haven’t seen a casino that specifically mentions value betting in their TOS, although there is usually some vague language that allows casinos to ban or restrict you for just about anything they don’t like.

https://www.cloudbet.com/en/help/rules

Cloudbet reserves the right to void any bet at any time if it deems the bet to have been made in a fraudulent manner.

All bets will be accepted or rejected purely at Cloudbet's discretion. In-Play bets may be subject to a short delay before they are accepted and/or they will be kept pending during dangerous situations at Cloudbet's discretion. If there is an obvious error in the odds or limit of a market, bets on that market may be voided. If for any reason a bet is accepted Cloudbet reserves the right to deem the bet void if it determines that an advantage has been gained.

That one is from Cloudbet, not sure about other casinos, but I’m using it as a reference so we at least have a picture of how it looks. According to them, it’s at the casino’s discretion. Your bet can be voided during or even after the game is already concluded. And that “at their discretion” part is something we really can’t contest because we agreed to their terms.

This definition is abusive too. What exactly means an obvious error in odds? If odds are supposed to be 2 but they are 2.1, is this an obvious error? What about 2.5? How is it obvious and why would it be obvious to me as a potential player? I can understand something like a favorite having odds of something ridiculous like 10-15 being an obvious error. However punishing people for picking good odds, where they are slightly more favorable to the player than they should be seems just like selective scamming. They may let people who win small amounts keep their winnings but if someone wins huge once they can use this to block their win. They can't leave the writing as something vague such as this if they want to be honest and act good towards the player. They need to be as precise as possible, explain clearly and with examples what would be considered as obvious error and demonstrate where the limits of this are.

When there is no definition of obvious error then they could just say that it applies to all errors, because they can use the rule like this. This gives them the basis of making bad claims against any winner. If someone wins really big in a casino where there is no explicit definition they could say look those odds were 2.5 but were supposed to be 2.0 and we can't pay you out anything. Does that sound fair?

[WhoYouCantKill]

Casinos usually flag value bet if a player steadily aims odds that are mispriced or dull to update. Patterns such as hitting boosted lines, winning too regular on sharp markes,  or placing bets just when the odds are in your favor may attract reviews. They view it as being exploited instead of normal play, therefore going after dropping odds or clear mistakes. It is usually about repeated, predictable style, instead of one-off bets.

[Dogedegen]

Casinos usually flag value bet if a player steadily aims odds that are mispriced or dull to update. Patterns such as hitting boosted lines, winning too regular on sharp markes,  or placing bets just when the odds are in your favor may attract reviews. They view it as being exploited instead of normal play, therefore going after dropping odds or clear mistakes. It is usually about repeated, predictable style, instead of one-off bets.

What they mean to say here is that losing is normal play for them, and winning they consider an exploit. Such casinos should never be trusted. Value betting and betting in the ways that you have described are not exploits of any kind. They are features of a person who is extremely disciplined gambler and has a very good strategy. You know the things that we talk about here often, this is how you should be. Playing some games whenever and with no clear strategy or without putting a lot of effort like in the example you have provided is exactly why most people are losing money.

These players should be upgraded to VIPs instead and otherwise promoted. Still even with this the casino can work on implementing some countermeasures over time that minimize some of these but only in an appropriate way. Maybe the refresh of odds for some betting is too slow or it is calculated in a too optimistic way, they can fix these over time. The fixes should never be about punishing a player for playing these games. But such casinos are shady and just want you to lose, they are just 1 step away from sabotaging you directly. If it would not ruin their reputation, they would try to actively sabotage the players. I don't trust such places as their intentions are bad.

[Maslate]

It's basically because they're being taken advantaged of the odds they provide to the gamblers. I don't know how to find these and so those who are finding them are actually taking time in finding those. I think the bookies should blame the providers and these value bettors are probably just also waiting for some of those bets to have that value greater than it actually is. And when they see that, before the odd changes, they're quick to place their bets before the bookie actually realizes that it's not the usual odds that they should have made for those specific games.

But they have no time to blame the providers. They’ll lose money if they let bettors win on those mistakes. So instead, they just void the bet, or if it already got graded as a win, they freeze the balance and ban the player. It’s not fair, but if it’s written in the TOS, they have every reason to do it without facing any legal consequences.

The only thing at risk for them is their reputation. People see it as unfair, and once gamblers lose trust, the casino loses players.

[Ivystar5]

I'm also wondering why a sportbook maker will be mad at an individual using the opportunity they have to make extra gains basically it's not an individual fault that they lack accuracy on the odds, so why is it against their TOS, I also believe that they might have an intention to make profit from it by over valuing a particular odd for people to go against the right person to win, because their is a common psychology of picking a lower odd because of its possibility of right outcome but then they ban someone for it. The casino should be soured 

It would be the oddsmakers lack of accuracy, but that's another issue. They could be mad at one individual if he/she consistently picked value bets and if he/she earned substantial sums from such activity. I don't think the average Joe would have any problems for isolated value bets, but when the bettor is found to be trying to exploit it, I understand the reason why it is not admissible according to TOS.

I also admit that it's a bad behaviour if constant used against the casino but however why would a casino be more consistent on that by making odds overvalued, hence leaving the vulnerability for people to exploit them. it's been considered smart if someone is able to calculate all odds and figure out that a particular odd is overvalued and that is also another hardwork to put in to make extra money. They should accept the madness they created and should not be so mad at someone who does it just as they excepted.

[Kasabus]

The only thing at risk for them is their reputation. People see it as unfair, and once gamblers lose trust, the casino loses players.

But they won’t do it all the time. If ever they scam, it will only be in rare and selective cases. And honestly, I doubt they’d even try that if they’re consistently making profit every day with a huge volume of bettors. Even a small suspicion can already damage their reputation, much more if a user has evidence and posts it against the casino.

There were even cases where a casino had a bug that caused some gamblers to win big. Instead of freezing the balance or blaming the players, they just allowed it, accepted the mistake, and fixed their system quietly. They lost a significant amount, but they didn’t put the blame on the gamblers. This should how they act.

[nelson4lov]

Ya, I learnt about value bets a few weeks ago right here on the forum when one member mentioned it as a "good strat". TIL it's actually illegal to go after such odds and why I've known the reason such bets exist in the first place, I do not think gamblers should be punished because of it especially since the fault is not from the gambler per se. Market inefficiencies exist on almost all markets and anyone who gets finds an edge via market efficiencies shouldn't be punished.

This is just my 2 cents.