ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[glendall]

I just don't see the value of Asicminer anymore.  I've been around almost from the start, and recall seeing AM at over 4btc a share (and ya lost bunch of btc along the way, but no sour milk here.)

But now a days, just don't see a lot to be optimistic about. The company blew their first-mover advantage IMHO.  20% of mining market to lucky if they have 2%. First ASICs to a new gen chip that came about 6 months later than I expected, and just isn't as energy or cost effective as the competition. I don't follow this thread as much anymore but it seemed like they are having enough trouble getting rid of the chips at cost as opposed to making profit. 

It's crazy how quickly stuff changes in the world of bitcoin. I hope FC can turn it around but AM seems way overvalued to me, and the div potential looks really slight. 

[vortex1878]

I just don't see the value of Asicminer anymore.  I've been around almost from the start, and recall seeing AM at over 4btc a share (and ya lost bunch of btc along the way, but no sour milk here.)

But now a days, just don't see a lot to be optimistic about. The company blew their first-mover advantage IMHO.  20% of mining market to lucky if they have 2%. First ASICs to a new gen chip that came about 6 months later than I expected, and just isn't as energy or cost effective as the competition. I don't follow this thread as much anymore but it seemed like they are having enough trouble getting rid of the chips at cost as opposed to making profit. 

It's crazy how quickly stuff changes in the world of bitcoin. I hope FC can turn it around but AM seems way overvalued to me, and the div potential looks really slight. 

So why do you believe you can judge? Because things "seem"? 

[feifa]

hashratio's farm with AM Tube

[DjPxH]

hashratio's farm with AM Tube

One of the proves or indicators (yeah, it's difficult to provide proof, but if everything's pointing in one direction, it's naive to believe the contrary) that AM indeed focuses on mining again. Hashratio have always been closely related to AM, very closely. I've seen enough people discuss FC's franchising offer, i.e. that people host the hardware for shares as collateral, to be sure he has to resort to such things. BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s. Make it 10. The projections for selling all 60 PH/s gen 3 at $0.35 resulted in about 0.05 BTC/share. Not going to happen. Mabsark, show me the miners being sold that justify that quantity 

[jimmothy]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

[DjPxH]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

[feifa]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

Hashratio's CEO Zhaodong said the cost of AM Tube is 4000 CNY. As the hash chip(BE200) is the most expensive element of miner,
I guess hashratio is not the farnichised mining for AM now, It just buy AM BE200 at low price.
According Zhaodong's weibo, Hashratio consumes about 4-5P BE200 chips

[jimmothy]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

Lightning asic was only reselling hashratio machines AFAIK.

Here are my estimates:

BTCgarden 3PH-5PH sales + 2PH self mining
Hashratio 1-5PH sales + 10-20PH self mining
Lightning asic 1-2PH self mining
Rockminer 2-3PH sales + 1-2PH self mining
xbtec 2-10PH self mining (Can't really go off their own numbers since they seem somewhat bad at estimations but they are deploying HW apparently)
Edentech ~1PH

AM mine 2-4PH (could be franchising/mining 20+ PH if they found a location with cheap electricity)

[jimmothy]

According Zhaodong's weibo, Hashratio consumes about 4-5P BE200 chips

Source?

[feifa]

Hashraio has crowdfund 13 million CNY, which could support producing 3250 miners(cost 4000 CNY). Each miner is 900G/s.
Before crowdfunding, Hashratio has runned a 1P farm.
So together is ~4P

[jimmothy]

Hashraio has crowdfund 13 million CNY, which could support producing 3250 miners(cost 4000 CNY). Each miner is 900G/s.
Before crowdfunding, Hashratio has runned a 1P farm.
So together is ~4P

Is that the same 4-5ph hashratio was funding a few weeks ago?

Also are you sure they are only mining with 1ph?

[DjPxH]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

Lightning asic was only reselling hashratio machines AFAIK.

Here are my estimates:

BTCgarden 3PH-5PH sales + 2PH self mining
Hashratio 1-5PH sales + 10-20PH self mining
Lightning asic 1-2PH self mining
Rockminer 2-3PH sales + 1-2PH self mining
xbtec 2-10PH self mining (Can't really go off their own numbers since they seem somewhat bad at estimations but they are deploying HW apparently)
Edentech ~1PH

AM mine 2-4PH (could be franchising/mining 20+ PH if they found a location with cheap electricity)

Those are bold estimates, but after all they're still what they are... estimates. Do you've got sources to prove those claims or that indicate those numbers? Your're known to be rather optimistic at times  (no offense)

[DjPxH]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

Hashratio's CEO Zhaodong said the cost of AM Tube is 4000 CNY. As the hash chip(BE200) is the most expensive element of miner,
I guess hashratio is not the farnichised mining for AM now, It just buy AM BE200 at low price.
According Zhaodong's weibo, Hashratio consumes about 4-5P BE200 chips

Do you've got any insight on the price the BE200 chips are sold at these days or over the last month?

[RoadStress]

Lightning asic was only reselling hashratio machines AFAIK.

Here are my estimates:

BTCgarden 3PH-5PH sales + 2PH self mining
Hashratio 1-5PH sales + 10-20PH self mining
Lightning asic 1-2PH self mining
Rockminer 2-3PH sales + 1-2PH self mining
xbtec 2-10PH self mining (Can't really go off their own numbers since they seem somewhat bad at estimations but they are deploying HW apparently)
Edentech ~1PH

AM mine 2-4PH (could be franchising/mining 20+ PH if they found a location with cheap electricity)

Your estimates are way off. Just took the biggest number and added up they give me 54PH/s. Doesn't it seems a bit too much considering that from June until now the network grew only with ~40PH/s? Even the minimum numbers are a bit off. 25PH/s is 60% of the 40PH deployed in the last months. It's more than all other manufacturers combined!

Even if they added 54PH/s they are far from their 100PH/s estimates in 2 months and still no dividends!

Considering that KnC launched the Neptunes and Bitfury is working on 3 DC (Georgia, Iceland and Finland) I really think that the numbers are just pure imagination. How about we ask FC how many PH he sold in the last 2 months for a better answer?

[jimmothy]

Lightning asic was only reselling hashratio machines AFAIK.

Here are my estimates:

BTCgarden 3PH-5PH sales + 2PH self mining
Hashratio 1-5PH sales + 10-20PH self mining
Lightning asic 1-2PH self mining
Rockminer 2-3PH sales + 1-2PH self mining
xbtec 2-10PH self mining (Can't really go off their own numbers since they seem somewhat bad at estimations but they are deploying HW apparently)
Edentech ~1PH

AM mine 2-4PH (could be franchising/mining 20+ PH if they found a location with cheap electricity)

Your estimates are way off. Just took the biggest number and added up they give me 54PH/s. Doesn't it seems a bit too much considering that from June until now the network grew only with ~40PH/s? Even the minimum numbers are a bit off. 25PH/s is 60% of the 40PH deployed in the last months. It's more than all other manufacturers combined!

Considering that KnC launched the Neptunes and Bitfury is working on 3 DC (Georgia, Iceland and Finland) I really think that the numbers are just pure imagination.

54PH sold does not mean 54PH is added to the network. It could take weeks before chips start hashing. (longer if you are xbtec)

Also 40PH is way off. Network was 80PH on june1 and is now 140PH.

[DjPxH]

How about we ask FC how many PH he sold in the last 2 months for a better answer?

Well maybe because... umm... he doesn't freaking answer us anymore? 

[Anotheranonlol]

BTCGarden, ROCKMINER, Lightning Asics, etc. combined only account for, say 6 PH/s.

Source?

Only an overly generous guess. BTCGarden managed to sell a lot, yeah. They had sold like almost a PH a month ago. let's assume they now sold 3. With all their 400 GH/s machines, ROCKMINER needs to sell like 4000 machines to achieve a single PH. Lightning Asic seems to be stagnating ever since. They even have a in-stock-counter that moves about 5 pcs/week. I doubt they sold more than 100 TH/s. Who else is there? XBTec used to be the big hope for AM. Well, they've gone silent, and only have lowered (as in 'it got worse') their consumption expectations. They really seemed to have done the trick in optimizing the BE200. I'm having a hard time reaching even those estimated 6 PH/s. And that would only account for 1/10 of those 60 PH/s
Hashratio and franchised mining seems to be the final straw. And I can't believe that FC is dictating the terms there 

Please show me calculations that support more chips have been sold to manufacturers!

Hashratio's CEO Zhaodong said the cost of AM Tube is 4000 CNY. As the hash chip(BE200) is the most expensive element of miner,
I guess hashratio is not the farnichised mining for AM now, It just buy AM BE200 at low price.
According Zhaodong's weibo, Hashratio consumes about 4-5P BE200 chips

Do you've got any insight on the price the BE200 chips are sold at these days or over the last month?

Zhao said in QQ earlier he didn't receive details about AM franchising.
And everyone in China can buy BE200 at low price 

[DjPxH]

Zhao said in QQ earlier he didn't receive details about AM franchising.
And everyone in China can buy BE200 at low price 

Yeah, there were at least 60 PH/s that need to be cleared from stock 
But do you have any idea about how low that price actually is?

[Anotheranonlol]

Zhao said in QQ earlier he didn't receive details about AM franchising.
And everyone in China can buy BE200 at low price 

Yeah, there were at least 60 PH/s that need to be cleared from stock 
But do you have any idea about how low that price actually is?

I didn't check the current price, but was given a price in May, from supplier that order 3ph worth.
 Asicminer stockholders may want to check their pacemakers and ensure they do not have history of high blood pressure. 

I think hashratio has rebrand their AM tube as galaxy dragonflies now

[DjPxH]

Zhao said in QQ earlier he didn't receive details about AM franchising.
And everyone in China can buy BE200 at low price 

Yeah, there were at least 60 PH/s that need to be cleared from stock 
But do you have any idea about how low that price actually is?

I didn't check the current price, but was given a price in May, from supplier that order 3ph worth.
 Asicminer stockholders may want to check their pacemakers and ensure they do not have history of high blood pressure. 

I think hashratio has rebrand their AM tube as galaxy dragonflies now

But the $0.35 / GH/s back at the end of May or early June were right, weren't they?