Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[DPoS]

This is actually a great point, who knows if I would have sold in stead of investing in equipment, with it stuck in hardware, at least I can't spend it on something else.

It's the main reason I bought 2 upgrade modules..  I re-bought the 5.8 BTC @ 350 each when I bought the modules and now that got me to more than double the BTC coming out of them since I sell everyday  (that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.. besides buying major dips and flipping quickly)

I didn't have high expectations going into this, so I have already exceeded them

[madsusies]

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius

EDIT. they seem to be down for me at moment.  Are being DDoS'd?

Yes 49ghas instead 100ghas

[TheJuice]

The order book will likely open either tomorrow, or in the coming days.

Not sure what you mean by what kind of refusal? In any case wait and see at the point of announcement.

Dare say it will be first come first served to previous customers for a designated period of time. I have no idea of there is a limit, or whether there's a reseller program. Though of there is please use the reseller link in my sig. Ta v.much

Order book for what? We have zero tech specs on the devices, how many there will be and other companies are coming quicker and quicker to release all their hardware. One another competitor throw out his 1TG rig for $5k, KNC will have to tqake ALOT of money off their asking price of $7,000 or even higher. Once greed sets it it's almost impossible to control.

It'll be interesting to see the new specs. From my limited knowledge 20nm is equal/slightly less powerful than 26nm per transistor (but more transistors) and more efficient. My guess is ~70% increase in hash per chip with same/reduced draw. I'll give a 25% boost to optimization aswell.

My estimate: March shipping, 1.5 Tera-Hash drawing 600W for $2-3k. (this of course is modular), Expect the main offering to be 4.5 Thash for ~6-8k. This will draw 1800 watts.

[Scoobypup]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

In the simple situation you and many others keep repeating, yes.   But there is a whole other side of cost-basis, time-value-of-money etc that I won't bother to bring up.  If you understand you understand, if you don't then that is why Wall Street & FED never has to worry about the masses rising up against them

When it comes to taxes and being a legit business, I agree. However, I and most I assume, are not in that situation and can easily forgo those complications. For us, it does not make sense to pay another company to produce an item that will "mine" back less than it cost us to purchase in the first place regardless of the fiat equivalent of our investments or payouts.
For an individual...for any given profitable timeframe, if the product will not produce more btc than it cost to purchase initially, then it is not a good investment.

[waterboi92]

In fact if you bought BTC with what you paid for your miner, you would be much better off, except everyone seems to ignore this.

And folks that say this over and over always ignore the bigger elephant which is what is your target sell price?  

So, right now, say how much BTC you will buy today and how high you will wait to sell.   I don't remember anyone saying they were buying $14000 worth of BTC in June and holding until they were $800 each

What matters is how much more $$$ you end up with.  If you end up with more $$$ after only mining 60-80% of your BTC back since you end up selling at a later time than if you just bought btc and then had your weak hands shook, and only gained half of what you would of if you bought miners and mined..

talk about that side of reality.. the human element


so in summary, the people who keep repeating this dogma of just buy btc instead of mining are the people that don't want anyone else to mine...  game theory 101

well said...i agree with this.

+1

[1l1l11ll1l]

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius

I gave up on Eligius a day ago. Can't stand all the variance, and luck seems to be crappy lately. Switched to 7.5% fee BTC Guild PPS for now.

Hit mineb.tc for 5% PPS, rock solid pool.

[DPoS]

For an individual...for any given profitable timeframe, if the product will not produce more btc than it cost to purchase initially, then it is not a good investment.

I was alluding to things like 0% interest rates, or balance sheet tricks like buying miners, selling one btc before end of Dec, then claiming a miner price as cost basis to claim a loss, but then sell Jan and not have to pay on the gains for a year and use that money to make other money..   that's the whole time-value-of-money

there are deeper and sketchier things going then these examples

[ecliptic]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

[DPoS]

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

[ecliptic]

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

Haahahahahahahahahah I like the part where you thought a government agency, responsible for the income of the entire government, was dependent on some shady russians to inform them about your 5-7 digit financial tax evading wheeling and dealing.


Seems like a lot of people are going to be in jail for tax evasions, I'll have to stock up on popcorn for audit season 

[madsusies]

Yes us folk, you will pay an annual tax frim btc income, thx god this s't doesn't existing in EU (we mostly pay 30% from salary as tax for hospital,  insurance ect we do not pay annual tax at all)

[joeventura]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

Transactions under $10k here in the U.S. get reported to no one.
My coin seller does not have my SSN therefore there is no way the IRS has diddly so I will call your statement above (as it relates to me) crap.

[DPoS]

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

I doubt BTCe is sending out any 1099-B's

Haahahahahahahahahah I like the part where you thought a government agency, responsible for the income of the entire government, was dependent on some shady russians to inform them about your 5-7 digit financial tax evading wheeling and dealing.


Seems like a lot of people are going to be in jail for tax evasions, I'll have to stock up on popcorn for audit season 

you took a leap there...  happy travels

[Kaliecious]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

If the exchanges are getting geared for the rules they are going to have to follow they will have to give you annual reports of your gains or losses for tax purposes

[ecliptic]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels. 

Transactions under $10k here in the U.S. get reported to no one.
My coin seller does not have my SSN therefore there is no way the IRS has diddly so I will call your statement above (as it relates to me) crap.

It's like you think you're immune to structuring laws (hint : ALL transactions relating to bitcoins are flagged as suspeciouis and investigated, as they should be, vastly abused by tax evaders)

it's like you literally think you can withdrawl from an exchange to some sort of account that DOESN'T redflag and report everything you do

Reminder : localbitcoins is constnatly pushed by tax evaders because IT. IS. THE. ONLY. ACTUAL. WAY. TO. AVOID. TAXES.

You would do well to remember this, but you've probably already fucked up hard and sold your coins.  Or spent them!!!

Remember!~  Spending coins = TAXABLE. TRANSACTION.

Prepare.
For
Audits.

[davewr2013]

None of that matters. You simply do the math for when your miners will stop being profitable (when you'd stop mining), and instead buy btc and hold until that time. You will always end up more profitable that way than if you buy hardware to mine.
I didn't do this the first time and instead bought miners from KnC. I will now be lucky if I make half as much btc as I could have if I just bought it at the time I placed my order. The only true winners in the mining game are those who make the miners. The rest are just chumps regardless of how you try and spin it.

Except that i can spend 4000$ (5 BTC) to buy a miner that nets 15+ BTC over a few months

Also a friendly reminder that selling BTC will get your ass raped by the IRS as it is an automatically reported transaction on several levels.  

Transactions under $10k here in the U.S. get reported to no one.
My coin seller does not have my SSN therefore there is no way the IRS has diddly so I will call your statement above (as it relates to me) crap.

It's like you think you're immune to structuring laws (hint : ALL transactions relating to bitcoins are flagged as suspeciouis and investigated, as they should be, vastly abused by tax evaders)

it's like you literally think you can withdrawl from an exchange to some sort of account that DOESN'T redflag and report everything you do

Reminder : localbitcoins is constnatly pushed by tax evaders because IT. IS. THE. ONLY. ACTUAL. WAY. TO. AVOID. TAXES.

You would do well to remember this, but you've probably already fucked up hard and sold your coins.  Or spent them!!!

Remember!~  Spending coins = TAXABLE. TRANSACTION.

Prepare.
For
Audits.

Just because you are right does not mean that people will listen.

Track your expenses, run it like a business. Pay your taxes and stay out of jail.

If you do not believe this -- call a CPA/Tax Accountant in the USA or a CA/CGA in Canada. Only Lawyers can invoke attorney/client privilege though -- so if you intend to cheat -- stick to dealing with a lawyer.

Can you get away with cheating? -- probably for a while -- maybe even forever. But it is a gamble.

[merv77]

COOL, I just noticed they only mention a single model...."Neptune"
This will solve many of the issues selling smaller machines... and make Customer service a breeze!! I really hope that's what it means!...

Heh, I hope Neptune "IS" the smaller model

Not a bad idea really......!  
one easy size & model to deal with.....

smaller in size isn't a bad idea, but much much bigger/higher in hashing power I hope.

[monsieur]

anyone getting weird results/hash rate at eligius

I gave up on Eligius a day ago. Can't stand all the variance, and luck seems to be crappy lately. Switched to 7.5% fee BTC Guild PPS for now.

Hit mineb.tc for 5% PPS, rock solid pool.

Thanks, I'll check it out. If it really turns out to be 2.5% less than guild, my savings will be more than enough to cover all of my food expenses, for instance. Until difficulty jumps significantly, that is.

[Searing]

So on the Neptune what are we looking at here ...assuming they ask for $$$ from the pre-existing customers on say DEC 1st 2013.. a consensus here guess of say
shipping started March 15th 2014? or so?

The other related "horror" of this scenario ..is that is 3.5 to 4 months say of $$$ tied up (likely around 10k) for all that time....and that is a lot of time to take pre-orders..so your miner and start mining  with everyone else dumped on network in 2 weeks or so from that backlog....at worst/best case scenario they'd be pumping out units big time the next 2 months (this is due to proven track record 20mm footprint and refund policy and credit card paypal up to shipping ..who would you buy from)...they will  have more orders then capacity imho it will be nuts!!!

I"ll probably buy the next unit..because I am somewhat bored of late and like playing at mining is fun in a scary "hey lets be an astronaut" kinda way.....but I should look at it like a "Bass Boat" and my dream of paying for it by "competitive Bass fishing tournament winnings" ..a pleasant dream but not very likely..of course the way my unit arrived from Sweden last time ..I could use this as an excuse to fly to Sweden (of course then I would have to come home....that would suck)

*shudders to think of ups/dhl handling a "lighter" 10k unit from Sweden to USA...........smaller more fun to toss and better distance DHL/UPS toy.....

silly hobby an't it (have to think of it as a hobby I start to think of this as "real money" I crap myself..oh well wine/women and song are overrated I hear)

Searing

[Wesly]

Transactions under $10k here in the U.S. get reported to no one.
My coin seller does not have my SSN therefore there is no way the IRS has diddly so I will call your statement above (as it relates to me) crap.

I am no tax expert, but I don't think you should under-estimate the length your government will do to get what they want especially your "hard-earned" money.  And it is naive to think that they will play by the rule.  Officially it is $10k, but it can be much less if you have multiple smaller activity/transactions (even in different banks) that add up to a large sum of money.

I am very interested in hearing how you have been or intended to laundering your bitcoin profits?  Even if you sell it locally for cash, how do you deposit that money into your banks without looking suspicious as to the origin of your money?  Are you using it to buy a car or house?  How do you explain to the IRS when you bought a $1 million house and/or $100,000 Tesla  all in cash when you are only making $50,000/yr?  I guess you must be running an Italian restaurant that has no paying customer as a front to launder your bitcoin money..  Or have rolls of hundreds under your mattress