Second chance for mixers?

[uchegod-21]

I read in Babo new year thread where theymos dropped a message about bitcoin performance last year. He noted how unbelievably anti-bitcoin the outgoing Biden's administration was - Looking forward, it's definitely a very good thing that the Biden administration will be gone, since they were unbelievably anti-crypto

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

[_act_]

The matter is more than just bitcoin lover becoming the United States president. It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud. You can remember the time of Chipmixer. Also the time Sinbad was connected with coin stolen by one of the well known bad hacker group in North Korea. The United States will still against fraud and they are checking what is going on Bitcointalk. The best is for theymos not to allow mixer anymore. It is for the forum benefit.

Theymos will have the best answer. If theymos will allow mixers again, I believe he would have made his own findings and he will make sure it will not affect this forum. If something like that happens, it would be good.

[Churchillvv]

Apart from the fact that some OGs of the forum disappeared into the thin air after mixer ban what exactly is special about mixers coming back ?

Definitely not against it because I was never here when mixer where active although I saw them but was ignorant of them, I really do not see any specialty attached to mixers.

[uchegod-21]

The matter is more than just bitcoin lover becoming the United States president. It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud. You can remember the time of Chipmixer. Also the time Sinbad was connected with coin stolen by one of the well known bad hacker group in North Korea. The United States will still against fraud and they are checking what is going on Bitcointalk. The best is for theymos not to allow mixer anymore. It is for the forum benefit.

Theymos will have the best answer.

I understand your point, but from ab initio, there was never a time mixers were not associated with fraud. Infact, bitcoin itself was and is still being linked to heavy fraud. Before bitcoin and mixers, there were frauds and there'll still be fraud till tomorrow. According to an African adage, "no one throws away a child with the dirty water in the bathing bucket "

The principal reason for mixer ban here was because the US government were seriously against mixers and hunting them down. So, we shouldn't be surprised if there's reversal of decision when the government becomes friendly.

[DireWolfM14]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Not to get all political in the Meta section, but never trust what a politician says he'll do.  Wait to see what he actually does.  Then wait to see how the propaganda machine reports on what he's doing or not doing, then assume the opposite is good for you.

[robelneo]

The principal reason for mixer ban here was because the US government were seriously against mixers and hunting them down. So, we shouldn't be surprised if there's reversal of decision when the government becomes friendly.

This is something we look forward to. Trump has been all praise about Bitcoin, but its different when you're campaigning, and if you are already in the office, mixers have long been a part of the industry, so there will be some people who will lobby for that.
But it's still up to Theymos to make the decision to allow it here even if the Trump administration eases up their attention to mixers.

[PX-Z]

The matter is more than just bitcoin lover becoming the United States president. It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud...

Right? it's the law for AML itself, no president can't defend such thing. It's bitcoin mixer's nature is the main thing here. While mixers can surely enhance privacy, they also pose ethical challenges due to their potential misuse which can happen to any mixer and can pose legal issue here if allowed to being advertised.

[acroman08]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

there is no telling, even if Trump's administration becomes bitcoin-friendly it doesn't mean they'll become friendly with services like mixers. Also, as far as I know, the issue with mixers isn't really about it being connected to Bitcoin, but it is because of the money laundering, scamming and other stuff that is connected to it, to the point that governments are investigating it.

[hugeblack]

As of now, bitcoin mixers are not classified as illegal, or I'll quote "A cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal^[1]", so unless something was sent to @theymos or not publicly disclosed, bitcoin mixer ban was precautionary, and if the government is less strict with KYC regulations, @theymos should reconsider the ban.

Also, as far as I know, the issue with mixers isn't really about it being connected to Bitcoin, but it is because of the money laundering, scamming and other stuff that is connected to it, to the point that governments are investigating it.

The same argument was used to describe Bitcoin.

[1] https://www.fiod.nl/fiod-takes-large-crypto-currency-mixer-off-the-air/

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

It has gone to the extent that mixers are linked to fraud.

Very lame narrative, created by those who are anti bitcoin and decentralization. A mixer is a tool, it's up to the user who is using the tool. Fraud can be a person not the tool itself. You punish the fraud not the tool. There are no bitcoin tagged as black and white. Bitcoin can be used to perform illegal activates, so does cash and even fiat in bank. Would you ban banking system for it?

Theymos made a decision for his own safety, he can tell whatever he wants to everyone. The asktom.cf community safety will be ensured when we will have an onion address. A clear net domain can be seized anytime by powerful people. What will happen to us people who have a major time of their life spent with this community?

[_act_]

As of now, bitcoin mixers are not classified as illegal, or I'll quote "A cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal^[1]", so unless something was sent to @theymos or not publicly disclosed, bitcoin mixer ban was precautionary, and if the government is less strict with KYC regulations, @theymos should reconsider the ban.

I believe theymos did not just ban mixer. I also believe it would be a hard decision for him. But he just had to let go of mixers at the time. I believe people warned him and telling about the consequences if this forum continue to advertise mixers.

Very lame narrative, created by those who are anti bitcoin and decentralization. A mixer is a tool, it's up to the user who is using the tool. Fraud can be a person not the tool itself. You punish the fraud not the tool. There are no bitcoin tagged as black and white. Bitcoin can be used to perform illegal activates, so does cash and even fiat in bank. Would you ban banking system for it?

That is your own opinion or the way we see it on this forum. You know how the regulators can act. This is not just about how we feel or how it actually is but it is about how United States regulations think it is because this forum is centralized and can be overpowered or taken down by the regulators. Even it is possible that theymos can be their suspect just as you said.

[ABCbits]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Probably no. Even during his campaign, i don't remember he promise to,
1. Make law which respect Bitcoiner's privacy and self-custodial.
2. Remove law which violate Bitcoiner's privacy and self-custodial, whether ones made during Biden or his previous administration.

[BlackBoss_]

I read in Babo new year thread where theymos dropped a message about bitcoin performance last year. He noted how unbelievably anti-bitcoin the outgoing Biden's administration was - Looking forward, it's definitely a very good thing that the Biden administration will be gone, since they were unbelievably anti-crypto

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Anti-crypto and anti-mixer are at different levels. Governments can become more friendly with cryptocurrencies but they will launch new laws, regulations to tax their citizens more. Mixers are for privacy and helpful for money laundering, and perhaps tax invasion too, governments even are opened and friendly with cryptocurrencies, will not be opened and friendly with mixers.

If they won't change globally, not only in the USA, theymos will not take risk to give a second chance for mixers in this forum.

[Lucius]

I read in Babo new year thread where theymos dropped a message about bitcoin performance last year. He noted how unbelievably anti-bitcoin the outgoing Biden's administration was - Looking forward, it's definitely a very good thing that the Biden administration will be gone, since they were unbelievably anti-crypto

What is optimistic about the fact that the opinion was formed that Bitcoin depends on one man who is legally a convicted criminal who has one opinion in the morning and a completely different one at night? In addition, most of that post is not very optimistic, except for those who agree that we have reached the ATH and that BTC will lose 40% of its value in the following months.

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Definitely, he's just waiting for the crypto king from the White House to call him and say "this is Donald, please lift the ban on mixers"

[Plaguedeath]

Instead of back promoting mixers, I think the forum/we might start to promote centralized exchanges or ETFs.

It could be Trump ban every sites that listed on kycnot.me and online casinos.

AFAIK there's no president in this world are pro on privacy, even Nayib Bukele didn't, although he hold the coins in cold storage instead of hand to centralized exchanges.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

That could be quite cool actually but I doubt it will happen especially in the near future.

On the one hand, theymos seems to make decisions after long meditation and I don't think that if the incoming administration passes more privacy-friendly laws, which remains to be seen and will take time, he will rush to allow mixers again.

But as a futuristic I like to dream about it.

[NeuroticFish]

1. I don't think that Trump loves Bitcoin. Yes, he may have found its usefulness, or even more, the usefulness of Bitcoin community. But don't mistake it, he's still a politician and a business man. He doesn't do this kind of things on "love".

2. Mixers' stance is more an issue related to perception and law. I don't think that anything can be done at this point, first of all that hideous narrative has to go away of the main focus. We may need a campaign like the well known "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

3. Although off topic, @BitcoinGirl.Club rose a problem that's good to keep in mind: this is a public forum on clear net, we* may need to learn to watch our back, the world is bad out there. (* "we" as people and also "we" as bitcointalk forum).

[Alpha Marine]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

The mixers ban in my opinion was not on an anti bitcoin campaign. It was because of its links to fraud and money laundering. Of course, we understand that the government where against anything that would prevent it from seeing and controlling people so they had to go against mixers, but there have been cases where some mixers were caught to be a fraud. Mixers were banned to protect the forum. It was kind of like the Jonah and the boat scenario where Jonah had to be thrown into the sea so the storm could calm down.
With Mixers in the forum and the government strongly against mixers, the forum could feel a lot of heat for allowing mixers to advertise here. So the best decision in Theymos's view was to throw the Jonah off the boat.

So even if the new government is pro bitcoin, as long as they still tightening their grip on mixers, I don't think it would be allowed back on the forum.

[Futurexxx]

I read in Babo new year thread where theymos dropped a message about bitcoin performance last year. He noted how unbelievably anti-bitcoin the outgoing Biden's administration was - Looking forward, it's definitely a very good thing that the Biden administration will be gone, since they were unbelievably anti-crypto

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

You are very much correct on the aspect of joe Biden administration being anti crypto, and since he lost the election, we all has seen how Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has rose to a magnificent figure, and Donald trump returning back to office will make Bitcoin to surge the more, but as for mixers, though I wasn't here as of when they were here but I know that right now, due to how most scammers has used their services in the past to launder money in the past, it will be extremely difficult to convince the president of the united state to remove sanction on them regardless of who is in office, and if sanction hasn't been removed, their is no point of them returning, let them no drag the forum down with them.

[Hagart]

What theymos did was not because mixers were illegal (there is no law that explicitly says this), theymos did it to cover his back in case the Biden administration tightened these laws. Now, with Trump's return to the White House, there is no certainty that will change. In fact, I think it would not be a good idea for the mixers to return to the forum, at least until some time passes, when the new administration is more established. Trump still has to deliver on some things (his latest statements) regarding Bitcoin.