Second chance for mixers?

[LoyceV]

Why not? A man launched a meme coin from his position as president and used his influence to promote it and no doubt make a lot of money - if someone whispered this idea to him I think he might show interest

I haven't followed much of the Trump Coin, but from what I've seen, a pump&dump at that level is .... unprecedented!

[JollyGood]

Why not? A man launched a meme coin from his position as president and used his influence to promote it and no doubt make a lot of money - if someone whispered this idea to him I think he might show interest

Well, anything is possible. Now that Musk will not have as much as to the ear of Trump it is safe to count him out. Maybe someone else will mention it to him 

I'm not the least bit worried about it.

Half a dozen members of Trump’s cabinet hold Bitcoin assets, disclosures reveal, with a combined total worth millions

You have good reason to not be concerned. I suppose crypto is in safe hands for the foreseeable future.

[Lucius]

Why not? A man launched a meme coin from his position as president and used his influence to promote it and no doubt make a lot of money - if someone whispered this idea to him I think he might show interest

I haven't followed much of the Trump Coin, but from what I've seen, a pump&dump at that level is .... unprecedented!

True, from $1 to $75 in an instant, and then down into the abyss. Although he can say that he is not the worst in this regard, because his wife's meme coin has so far lost as much as 96%+ of its value compared to ATH.

A joke these days goes something like this - Two friends are talking: You know, I lost a lot of money on some crypto scam - . The second one asks: Who scammed you? The first one replies: The president and the first lady. The second one replies: At least you can't sue them, unless you don't like your life.

[SamReomo]

True, from $1 to $75 in an instant, and then down into the abyss. Although he can say that he is not the worst in this regard, because his wife's meme coin has so far lost as much as 96%+ of its value compared to ATH.

I guess it was under $1 when launched the whole market cap was below $500M and I missed it. However, within few hours it spiked so badly that reached $50 and $70 in value. The ones who invested early in it made some good profits in shortest time possible but the rest regretted. One of my friend invested in Trump coin when it was at $25 in hope that he'll get good returns in short term but I told him that meme coins doesn't work that way.

He regretted when the coin went below $12, but I told him to continue investing in it using DCA method, he followed the advice and continued his investing in the coin whenever it dipped. And, yesterday he sold the coin for $16 and somehow recovered his losses and made some profit not so much which he expected. He was happy by saying that at least I've recovered my money. Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone whether Trump coin or another newly launched meme coin on Solana blockchain.

[LoyceV]

Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone

So, mixers allegedly launder billions of dollars during the years they're active.
Meanwhile, meme coins have a daily trading volume of several billions of dollars! The amount of money going in and out in a day is more than a large mixer can anonymize in years. Somehow this doesn't feel right to me.

[SamReomo]

Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone

So, mixers allegedly launder billions of dollars during the years they're active.
Meanwhile, meme coins have a daily trading volume of several billions of dollars! The amount of money going in and out in a day is more than a large mixer can anonymize in years. Somehow this doesn't feel right to me.

Yes, I agree with you, there's huge trading volume on those meme coins that's in billions of dollars per day. I don't think that it's fair to consider mixers for money laundering as their main purpose is to provide privacy and anonymity but we can't change mind of those who consider such services as a haven for money laundering. To us who understand and give importance to privacy, mixers are for that purpose not for the purpose of laundering or anything else. When it comes to meme coins then like always I would say that those aren't for everyone because 99 out of 100 meme coins are created with rug pulling intention and it's waste of money to even trade useless tokens without understanding the meme coins market.

[Sandra_hakeem]

Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone

So, mixers allegedly launder billions of dollars during the years they're active.
Meanwhile, meme coins have a daily trading volume of several billions of dollars! The amount of money going in and out in a day is more than a large mixer can anonymize in years.

They'd seldom call the shit coin a gamble scheme; in that people know too well what these trash coins really are ( I mean, they're worthless), but they still jump on it when it pumps. It feels weird to me as people still lose millions and billions collectively to this scheme anyway. Oh no but somehow, that's not really too much problem like what the mixers have caused (In their opinion).
So, you can do whatever you want, even though it breaks the rule and sneaks in cash, as long as it's not hidden away from the Government? Is there a better way to understand this?

....as their main purpose is to provide privacy and anonymity.

Those terms are a real threat to them.

[NotATether]

Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone

So, mixers allegedly launder billions of dollars during the years they're active.
Meanwhile, meme coins have a daily trading volume of several billions of dollars! The amount of money going in and out in a day is more than a large mixer can anonymize in years. Somehow this doesn't feel right to me.

Can't wait to see the first memecoin mixer! (A service that gives you clean BTC by trading memecoins).

Seriously, seeing something like that would cause the feds to actually do something about memecoins at last.

But so don't think anyone is brave enough to make one.

[Forsyth Jones]

Well. I don't think mixers and  kyc-free exchanges are crypto laundry services. They can be used like that, but they are not this.

It is the same as saying cars are a banking robbing machine. They can be used to do that, but that is not the best definition of a car.

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service. They should be immediately confiscated and donated to open source projects or other causes, like eXch did.

It's a shame I'm only now commenting on this post after so long, I agree with you.

The government's solution will always be to restrict or ban something, and when it prohibits, it directly violates the individual freedom of choose. Meanwhile, individual's solution is to innovate something that already exists on the market and improve the experience according to supply/demand.

Many members wish mixers were allowed to advertise on the forum again, but we will face some obstacles:

Mixers were designed for people who want to hide their tracks to gain more privacy, but bad people can also use the mixer...

They made an analogy with the car, but the most appropriate is the train. The bandit robs a bank and escapes, gets on a train to go far away. Let's blame the train company, because it transported a bandit.

Perhaps the best allusion to mixers would be firearms, which are a self-defense instrument that ensures our physical integrity.
Owning guns is an individual right to protect yourself, your family and your assets against evildoers... weapons shouldn't be banned just because evil people misuse them... do you guys see that the problem is the individual who uses the tool and not the tool itself?

Yes, I agree with you, there's huge trading volume on those meme coins that's in billions of dollars per day. I don't think that it's fair to consider mixers for money laundering as their main purpose is to provide privacy and anonymity but we can't change mind of those who consider such services as a haven for money laundering. To us who understand and give importance to privacy, mixers are for that purpose not for the purpose of laundering or anything else. When it comes to meme coins then like always I would say that those aren't for everyone because 99 out of 100 meme coins are created with rug pulling intention and it's waste of money to even trade useless tokens without understanding the meme coins market.

The government's persecution of mixers is a lost cause that only affects those who want to guarantee their right to privacy, while criminals will continue to use mixers as they are released again, because as long as there is demand, there will always be supply.

The war on mixers is similar to the drug war; the authorities are unable to contain the circulation of drugs while wasting public resources that could be directed to covering the general needs of tax-paying society.


My op on banning mixers:

Legitimate privacy cannot be held hostage by criminals, this logic would lead us to ban even non-custodial wallets (wasabi..), non-kyc-exchanges and services (like btcpay used in commerce).

[JayJuanGee]

True, from $1 to $75 in an instant, and then down into the abyss. Although he can say that he is not the worst in this regard, because his wife's meme coin has so far lost as much as 96%+ of its value compared to ATH.

I guess it was under $1 when launched the whole market cap was below $500M and I missed it. However, within few hours it spiked so badly that reached $50 and $70 in value. The ones who invested early in it made some good profits in shortest time possible but the rest regretted. One of my friend invested in Trump coin when it was at $25 in hope that he'll get good returns in short term but I told him that meme coins doesn't work that way.

He regretted when the coin went below $12, but I told him to continue investing in it using DCA method, he followed the advice and continued his investing in the coin whenever it dipped. And, yesterday he sold the coin for $16 and somehow recovered his losses and made some profit not so much which he expected. He was happy by saying that at least I've recovered my money. Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone whether Trump coin or another newly launched meme coin on Solana blockchain.

I understand that a lot of people use the terms investing, trading and gambling in similar ways, yet I still find your use of the term "investing" to be an inaccurate description in regards to what is happening, and how folks gamble/trade with various shitcoins, and sure it is possible that in some cases, some of the guys may well be attempting to take a longer term position and to hold onto the coin with thoughts that it has some kind of fundamental value, rather than just attempting to play pumpamentals. 

With either the Trump coin or the Melania coin, there were potentials that the coins related to more than just short term pumping, yet a lot of the times the ones who get screwed the most are the ones who are deceived into believing that there is any kind of a long term investment thesis, whether referring to Trump coin or any other shitcoin that merely talks about all the things that it is going to do in the future based on their team of experts and/or blah blah blah stated or implied backers. 

Sure, I may well be merely arguing semantics since a lot of folks use the term "investing" to describe their attempts at short term profits - and yeah, there may even be some folks who might be willing to ride the shitcoin through its ups and downs, so they may well actually be thinking about their shitcoin as an investment.. whether referring to Trump coin or even a longer timer shitcoin such as ethereum that has taken years to play out, but still there have been a lot of longer term holders of that shitcoin ethereum who were thinking (or framing) their holding of value into ethereum as if it were a long term investment that just had not been panning out as well as they thought that it might play out.

[Forsyth Jones]

I understand that a lot of people use the terms investing, trading and gambling in similar ways, yet I still find your use of the term "investing" to be an inaccurate description in regards to what is happening, and how folks gamble/trade with various shitcoins, and sure it is possible that in some cases, some of the guys may well be attempting to take a longer term position and to hold onto the coin with thoughts that it has some kind of fundamental value, rather than just attempting to play pumpamentals. 

With either the Trump coin or the Melania coin, there were potentials that the coins related to more than just short term pumping, yet a lot of the times the ones who get screwed the most are the ones who are deceived into believing that there is any kind of a long term investment thesis, whether referring to Trump coin or any other shitcoin that merely talks about all the things that it is going to do in the future based on their team of experts and/or blah blah blah stated or implied backers. 
...

I don't like to hold altcoins or memecoins as an investment. I don't see myself holding coins like Trump, Melania, Pepe, etc., because in addition to being extremely volatile, they all depend on Bitcoin's variation in the end. This can be advantageous for those who understand market patterns and behaviors to accumulate more capital through probabilities that favor their strategy.

However, I like the idea of ​​using it as a way to obtain more bitcoins, through spot or leveraged trades (although it's extremely dangerous if not used with due caution).

Sometimes, I use altcoins like LTC to save on withdrawal fees, which are cheaper compared to the BTC withdrawal fees set by the vast majority of exchanges and then I swap the alt back to BTC.

[lontivero]

Legitimate privacy cannot be held hostage by criminals, this logic would lead us to ban even non-custodial wallets (wasabi..), non-kyc-exchanges and services (like btcpay used in commerce).

Exactly. This logic leads us to ban custodial mixers first, then privacy projects like Wasabi. Next would come scalability solutions like Ark and Lightning because those "bypass" the UTXO model and make operations difficult to track. Finally, self-custody wallets would be banned. Of course, the order might be different, and it seems to me that governments worry more about self-custody than Lightning, but they will go step by step, slowly banning (or "regulating") all these things.

However, it is important to know that before doing all these things, governments need to convince most citizens that such technologies are for bad people, enemies of society. That's why it is so critical to fight the linguistic battle. I don't custody my bitcoins myself because I am a criminal; I do it because you and your friends in the banking system are the criminals who want to "custody" the product of my life's work. I don't coinjoin my bitcoins because I am a criminal; I do it because I have to protect my family and my home from being broken into by criminals who know how much I hold.

The narrative that only criminals need privacy must be radically challenged, as it falsely frames basic security measures as suspicious behavior.

[Ruttoshi]

True, from $1 to $75 in an instant, and then down into the abyss. Although he can say that he is not the worst in this regard, because his wife's meme coin has so far lost as much as 96%+ of its value compared to ATH.

I guess it was under $1 when launched the whole market cap was below $500M and I missed it. However, within few hours it spiked so badly that reached $50 and $70 in value. The ones who invested early in it made some good profits in shortest time possible but the rest regretted. One of my friend invested in Trump coin when it was at $25 in hope that he'll get good returns in short term but I told him that meme coins doesn't work that way.

He regretted when the coin went below $12, but I told him to continue investing in it using DCA method, he followed the advice and continued his investing in the coin whenever it dipped. And, yesterday he sold the coin for $16 and somehow recovered his losses and made some profit not so much which he expected. He was happy by saying that at least I've recovered my money. Investing in meme coins isn't for everyone whether Trump coin or another newly launched meme coin on Solana blockchain.

I understand that a lot of people use the terms investing, trading and gambling in similar ways, yet I still find your use of the term "investing" to be an inaccurate description in regards to what is happening, and how folks gamble/trade with various shitcoins, and sure it is possible that in some cases, some of the guys may well be attempting to take a longer term position and to hold onto the coin with thoughts that it has some kind of fundamental value, rather than just attempting to play pumpamentals. 

With either the Trump coin or the Melania coin, there were potentials that the coins related to more than just short term pumping, yet a lot of the times the ones who get screwed the most are the ones who are deceived into believing that there is any kind of a long term investment thesis, whether referring to Trump coin or any other shitcoin that merely talks about all the things that it is going to do in the future based on their team of experts and/or blah blah blah stated or implied backers. 

Sure, I may well be merely arguing semantics since a lot of folks use the term "investing" to describe their attempts at short term profits - and yeah, there may even be some folks who might be willing to ride the shitcoin through its ups and downs, so they may well actually be thinking about their shitcoin as an investment.. whether referring to Trump coin or even a longer timer shitcoin such as ethereum that has taken years to play out, but still there have been a lot of longer term holders of that shitcoin ethereum who were thinking (or framing) their holding of value into ethereum as if it were a long term investment that just had not been panning out as well as they thought that it might play out.

Of course, buying shitcoins shouldn't be called investing because shitcoins becomes valueless overtime. It's only if you're lucky to sell within the short period of time that the price pump before dumpling. Long-term buying bitcoin and hodli is what I know as investing because bitcoin is safe to throw some value on since the odds of the price increasing overtime is higher.

One thing that I observed in Etherum is that, it's turning to be more of a shitcoin overtime. In the sense that, the price of Etherum depreciates little by little overtime. Way back when bitcoin price was $32 in 2023, Etherum price was around $2k+ but look at the price of Etherum now compared to bitcoin.

Don't surprise that if bitcoin price reaches a new ATH, Etherum will not make it to $4k which was the highest price of Etherum in this circle.

[examplens]

True, from $1 to $75 in an instant, and then down into the abyss. Although he can say that he is not the worst in this regard, because his wife's meme coin has so far lost as much as 96%+ of its value compared to ATH.

The disappointment in the tokens of the Trump family is equal to the disappointment of Trump's followers, because they expected much more from him, right from the first day. The only thing I welcome about Trump is this easing of measures towards mixers and their developers. Again, it is questionable how much influence he had on these changes.

[_BlackStar]

-snip-

The disappointment in the tokens of the Trump family is equal to the disappointment of Trump's followers, because they expected much more from him, right from the first day. The only thing I welcome about Trump is this easing of measures towards mixers and their developers. Again, it is questionable how much influence he had on these changes.

I and the privacy-minded bitcoin community will in fact wait and see how the issue develops - it would be great if mixers could eventually be brought back. But we never know when that time will come - whether the issue will actually be realized or whether it will just be outdated. I support the growth and development of mixers - but when governments start to regulate them, then perhaps the main obstacle will be that the terms and services no longer prioritize privacy. I mean - KYC or something like that will probably be one of the requirements that will be asked of every mixer user.

[SamReomo]

I understand that a lot of people use the terms investing, trading and gambling in similar ways, yet I still find your use of the term "investing" to be an inaccurate description in regards to what is happening, and how folks gamble/trade with various shitcoins, and sure it is possible that in some cases, some of the guys may well be attempting to take a longer term position and to hold onto the coin with thoughts that it has some kind of fundamental value, rather than just attempting to play pumpamentals. 

I can't disagree with you Jay as you're much more knowledgeable than me and thanks for correcting me that using of the term "investing" wasn't appropriate in that area. The shit coins or meme based shit coins are everywhere these days and we can't really change someone's mindset to not gamble those meme coins or in simple words the shit coins which are useless with no utility and no good community.

That friend of mine did the initial purchase because he was also someone who got excited about the coin because in his mind he thought that if president of United States of America is launched its official coin and it went up so fast so it might go high again and that was his mistake.  I was somehow informed about those coins and crypto market and that's why when he invested money initially in that coin or we can say gambled money in it when that coin's value was at $25 then I told him to not to put more money in it now and wait for sometime as the coin will dump below $13 or maybe $10 and there's chance that it might dump below $8. I told him to DCA in those ranges as his money was already in that meme coin, he was trying to put all of it at $22 but I told him to not do that.

My intention was to help that guy and fortunately he's got his money back and that's a good news for him and I told him to not put money in such coins again as it's more like gambling than investing. But, we can't really change someone's mindset, however he said he won't be going for such coins again and I also told him to stick with Bitcoin as that's the only coin that can be hold for long term and do DCA in that coin instead of those shit coins.

Basically, some people want money in shortest time and that's when they make such mistakes and those who truly understand value of their investment never even look toward such coins. Once again I will change the term investing to term gambling in meme coins and even if we call it gambling then such type of gambling isn't for everyone.

[LoyceV]

it would be great if mixers could eventually be brought back. ~ when governments start to regulate them ~ KYC or something like that will probably be one of the requirements

That wouldn't be a mixer in theymos' definition and is already allowed to be advertised on Bitcointalk:

Definition of a mixer
Something is considered a mixer if it meets all of these requirements:
 3. The service does not collect KYC-type info from all users.

(quote shortened)

[JollyGood]

It could have a knock-on effect where one is created and then several others are made by various teams citing their favourite celebrity, sports person or even politician 

Can't wait to see the first memecoin mixer! (A service that gives you clean BTC by trading memecoins).

Seriously, seeing something like that would cause the feds to actually do something about memecoins at last.

But so don't think anyone is brave enough to make one.

[igebotz]

Can't wait to see the first memecoin mixer! (A service that gives you clean BTC by trading memecoins).

Seriously, seeing something like that would cause the feds to actually do something about memecoins at last.

But so don't think anyone is brave enough to make one.

Imagine Bob mixing 1m worth of $Trump @$56 market price for clean BTC and few minutes later $Trump crashed x3 below the mixing value. Memecoin mixer service would not last a week. Imo.

[Synchronice]

The thought had not even crossed my mind but not that you mention it, TrumpMix does have a certain ring to it  

Why not? A man launched a meme coin from his position as president and used his influence to promote it and no doubt make a lot of money - if someone whispered this idea to him I think he might show interest

You guys really made my day This might be funny to read but that's actually possible if we keep in mind that insanity of the President. He is narcissist, he might create something similar to ordinals and will have his platform where every coin that went through TrumpMix will be marked with Trump's logo and he will promote it like it's cool. He might start the campaign Let's make every Bitcoin go through TrumpMix, let's everyone hold Trump badge Bitcoins.
I wouldn't feel surprised if he really does what I said. The guy launched Trump fragrance like he was Tom Ford.