Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Lloydie]

I can just hear dead philosophers turning in their graves as they muse over the moral quandry while rubbing their chins where beards may once have grown:

"Hmm... who is more morally good, the scammed or those that did advise the about-to-be-scammed of the scammer?"

On balance, the dead philosophers would probably declare that those who did advise the about-to-be-scammed of the perils of doing business with the scammer would have the higher quotient of goodness in their hearts as they took it upon themselves to inform the about-to-be-scammed of the risks that lay in wait for them. Those about-to-be-scammed who were then in fact scammed cannot seek to claim moral goodness by trumpeting that those who tried to help them avoid being scammed lack goodness in their heart.

As is the way with dead philosophers, with one moral question having been decided to their current satisfaction, they turn further in their graves but not having any other issue on the matter to address, cease stroking their chins where beards may once have grown...

...that is, until one of the dead philosophers with a puzzled expression asks,

"If we know who the about-to-be-scammed, the scammed and the scammer is, then who is the scammee?"

And so in death as in life, questions continue, chins are rubbed where beards may once have grown and the cycle of existence doth continue.







-----

And for the non-philosophically minded there's some information here http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scammee

Or maybe it was just a fuck up at BA? These guys did deliver bitfuries before. Whatever is the case, it does not justify you or anyone coming here saying I told you so. It's not helpful. And you guys are adding nothing. In fact, it is worse you are giving us unnecessary added grief.

[S4VV4S]

I understand that ASIC's aren't easy,but these delays seem very fishy to me.Just about every producer has been late,I just don't get it 

"Burn in testing"

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Let's say you are a manufacturer, you took a preorder, you finished the machine, and realistically you can ship whenever the hell you want. Why ship before mining becomes close to a break even proposition?

A few may choose to do so out of a sense of honor, or perhaps concern about being revealed as a fraud. Many will not.

The pool operator (wizkid) claims to know who is behind that address too. My guess is BFL.

I have been following that address for a few weeks now.

It constantly adds around 20TH of power daily. Sometimes it drops though.

Also they have made almost 3 million since Dec 06

https://blockchain.info/address/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX?offset=0&filter=0

[DoomDumas]

blackarrowsoftware miner..


In stock

Availlable April 30th


Is this a non-sense or it's me ?

[S4VV4S]

blackarrowsoftware miner..


In stock

Availlable April 30th


Is this a non-sense or it's me ?

It is in stock but not for sale now....

Read above posts

[ghcannon]

You guys are getting me pretty scared (Phinnaeus Gage especially, ofcourse)

As an objective person with no actual clue as to what the f*ck is going on here, I'm reluctant to trust both parties.
The fact that I have several $k in orders is making it no easier to take a pick ..

I'd like to ask Matt or bobsag3 or whatever person or alias to please get some tech pictures of progress and/or other proff that this development is going on track (current track that is, not the one initially announced). If you need to wait until tapeout for actual pictures of minion then tell us we'll shut up and wait, it's right around the corner as you said.

Dear BlackArrow, be sure that no less than 70% of people that made orders with you are watching this and some other threads - they just don't sign in and reply.
Now I know the refund terms and whatnot, but all of them asking for a refund because you couldn't properly respond to a few allegations will not be good for you.

I know you could stall delivery until it best suits you, I leave that in the hands of God.
But at least show some more stuff about current state ..

[jedimstr]

I remember Butterfly Labs posting tons of pictures and sending "demo units" to journalists and they still "BFL'd" everyone... so BlackArrow showing photos would be more like sticking a bandaid on a gaping, gushing, open wound.  Not gonna do much.

Then again, the fact that they didn't even go as far as Butterfly Labs did during their delays kinda says something as well.

[eightcylinders]

I remember Butterfly Labs posting tons of pictures and sending "demo units" to journalists and they still "BFL'd" everyone... so BlackArrow showing photos would be more like sticking a bandaid on a gaping, gushing, open wound.  Not gonna do much.

Then again, the fact that they didn't even go as far as Butterfly Labs did during their delays kinda says something as well.

I bet that I will see my BFL Monarchs (April Batch) before I see my BA Prospero (Jan Batch).  Sad.

[FiatKiller]

Good job looking out for us, PG. Glad I did not order any! lol

[DPoS]

Bruno Kucinskas
406 W. Center St.
Sandwich, IL  60548

how many sandwich shops in your town?  I imagine 5 on every street

[5craziest]

If they're offering a refund, I'd grab it

[dropt]

Hi ! Well.. PG is just trolling this forum in an unacceptable way.

Read more, post less.

[jimmothy]

Hi ! Well.. PG is just trolling this forum in an unacceptable way.

Correction, there is no trolling.  The information being provided and the holding of supposed responsible parties to account is more than acceptable, it is completely necessary and is one of the few reasons why any disclosure at all is taking place by a company who received funds in good faith from customers but whose good faith is far from being repaid.

You are delusional. Quit trolling and do something productive.

You come to this thread knowing that literally every asic manufacturer has experienced delays and act like you predicted the future when it was the same with BA.

Try not to pat yourself on the back too hard.

Notice how the only ones crying for a refund are the ones without orders from BA?

Seriously fuck off. We all knew that when preordering nonexistent hardware there would be a huge chance of delays and we accepted that fact when ordering.

We will get our (still best priced) hardware eventually and you will continue hopping from thread to thread letting everyone who preordered an asic know exactly how stupid they are.

Get a life

[jimmothy]

Hi ! Well.. PG is just trolling this forum in an unacceptable way.

Correction, there is no trolling.  The information being provided and the holding of supposed responsible parties to account is more than acceptable, it is completely necessary and is one of the few reasons why any disclosure at all is taking place by a company who received funds in good faith from customers but whose good faith is far from being repaid.

You are delusional. Quit trolling and do something productive.

You come to this thread knowing that literally every asic manufacturer has experienced delays and act like you predicted the future when it was the same with BA.

Try not to pat yourself on the back too hard.

Notice how the only ones crying for a refund are the ones without orders from BA?

Seriously fuck off. We all knew that when preordering nonexistent hardware there would be a huge chance of delays and we accepted that fact when ordering.

We will get our (still best priced) hardware eventually and you will continue hopping from thread to thread letting everyone who preordered an asic know exactly how stupid they are.

Get a life

No mate, you can fuck off yourself asshole. When members of the community provide information that informs the community at large of nefarious dealings, inconsistent statements, broken promises and attempts to defraud, it sure as hell isn't trolling, it's holding people to account.

If you don't like it that's too fucking bad.

I do hope you get your hardware but in the meantime, direct any anger you have to those who've deliberately lied to you about realistic delivery dates, those who've suckered you in to take the investment risk normally taken by venture capitalists who also become part owners in the business and who have dangled you out on the customer thread with very limited upside, that is, assuming you get a product at all.

You may not like it, but your attempts to shout down meaningful criticism do you no service at all.

FUN FACT: Literally EVERYONE who preordered an asic from ANY manufacturer that delivered made a profit in USD if they mined for a week or two then resold the hardware.

The only people who think they are getting scammed are the nerds who think that btc mining must result in a positive ROI in btc and think that the hardware manufacturer can be held accountable for that.

Why are you so mad? The people in this thread who have invested thousands are not even a fraction as irritated as you and PG.

BA is 2 months late. Thats it. If you don't want delays don't preorder a hypothetical product. If you don't mind possible delays and want a spot in line for one of the most cost efficient asics available you might be interested in preordering.


You might want to rethink what you consider "meaningful criticism" because you and PG have done nothing but cry about a delay and scream for refunds even though you never ordered anything from them and never planned to. This is nothing more than "I told you so" but nobody had disagreed in the first place that there would likely be delays.

[Unacceptable]

So,feb-march-april-maybe in may is 2 months   Looks like 3 months at least if they do deliver by may 1st   

[drewage]

Heh... I love this thread.

[ernie-]

Have Black Arrow done the tape out yet?

Last I read, it had been delayed.

[terrapinflyer]

So,feb-march-april-maybe in may is 2 months   Looks like 3 months at least if they do deliver by may 1st   

The original ship date was the end of Feb not the beginning. No one ever expected to see shipping before the end of Feb, if you did you where completely oblivious. So you math is a bit off, April-May(be) is 2 months.
Has anyone ever shipped on time?
Seriously, has anyone ever shipped on time?

[gmaxwell]

FUN FACT: Literally EVERYONE who preordered an asic from ANY manufacturer that delivered made a profit in USD if they mined for a week or two then resold the hardware.

The only people who think they are getting scammed are the nerds who think that btc mining must result in a positive ROI in btc and think that the hardware manufacturer can be held accountable for that.

This is going a bit off-topic... but it really shouldn't be left unchallenged.

I think you're taking an exceptionally stupid position here.  You have a stack of USD, you could do at least three things:
(0) Sit on your USD and do nothing.
(1) Buy Bitcoin.
(2) But a Bitcoin miner.

If (2) yields less bitcoin than you would have gotten with (1) you are worse off in every way. The miner takes up space, consumes power, has shipping and delivery risks, and is just as worthless as the Bitcoin if Bitcoin loses value, but is far less liquid. You take all the risks of owning Bitcoin, multiplied by illiquidity, plus some hardware specific risks.

There is no scenario in which (2) is better than (1) if (2) yields less Bitcoin, not if bitcoin goes up in value, not if it goes down, not if bitcoin becomes worthless, not on a boat, not with a goat.

Unless you want to consider incompetent people with no self control who can't manage to buy and hold things on their own— in which case I'll gladly offer second signer service for multisig at far less of a loss than ripoff prices from asic hardware vendors and a lot fewer risks.

[jimmothy]

I think you'll find that there are plenty of people who are disappointed with the conduct of BA, that's what this thread has been discussing for the last ten pages or more, so read back if you're unclear what different people have stated, I'm not going to generalise their reactions like you did in an attempt to prove my point. Suffice to say there's more than a handful of voices expressing discontent.

You asked, "Why are you so mad?" which is really quite ironic as you jumped on my earlier comment where I stated that 'there was no trolling, only a necessary holding to account' and then told me to fuck off. So am I mad? No, not really, so I just told you to fuck off back. Fair's fair, isn't it?

You're right there was some disappointment but only from maybe 5 people who actually purchased a preorder. If you cant look at PGs 5 pages worth of posts in this thread and don't see trolling I don't know if you can be helped. He did the same shit in the hashfast thread and they are now shipping hardware with decent specs.

We have been told by bobsag3 (very reputable seller) that they are going to be talking with BA to clarify about the delays and refunds even though they are not obligated to give refunds according to their agreement terms so no need to panic.

[jimmothy]

FUN FACT: Literally EVERYONE who preordered an asic from ANY manufacturer that delivered made a profit in USD if they mined for a week or two then resold the hardware.

The only people who think they are getting scammed are the nerds who think that btc mining must result in a positive ROI in btc and think that the hardware manufacturer can be held accountable for that.

This is going a bit off-topic... but it really shouldn't be left unchallenged.

I think you're taking an exceptionally stupid position here.  You have a stack of USD, you could do at least three things:
(0) Sit on your USD and do nothing.
(1) Buy Bitcoin.
(2) But a Bitcoin miner.

If (2) yields less bitcoin than you would have gotten with (1) you are worse off in every way. The miner takes up space, consumes power, has shipping and delivery risks, and is just as worthless as the Bitcoin if Bitcoin loses value, but is far less liquid. You take all the risks of owning Bitcoin, multiplied by illiquidity, plus some hardware specific risks.

There is no scenario in which (2) is better than (1) if (2) yields less Bitcoin, not if bitcoin goes up in value, not if it goes down, not if bitcoin becomes worthless, not on a boat, not with a goat.

Unless you want to consider incompetent people with no self control who can't manage to buy and hold things on their own— in which case I'll gladly offer second signer service for multisig at far less of a loss than ripoff prices from asic hardware vendors and a lot fewer risks.

I can actually think of a few cases where 2 is better than 1 or 0.

If you receive your miner and btc rate stays constant there would be little incentive for people to pour money in to new hardware or at least as quickly as expected. This could mean difficulty is much less than predicted and everyone reaches roi.

alternatively the price of btc could go up and you might only reach 50% roi but if you resell your miner after using it for a month you could probably reach a positive roi or come very close in btc terms (usd would reach positive roi in this case)