Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pistachio]

So let me get this straight.. He sent BTC, wants a refund, but minersource is choosing to refund the USD amount. But when I got my refund, minersource chose to refund the same amount of Bitcoin instead of the USD equivalent. And you think this is fair? So minersource benefits regardless of the price of Bitcoin, because they'll choose to refund the option that benefits them every time.
I guess I was right in my presumption that had the price of Bitcoin gone up from when I purchased (BTC =$1167 when I paid), then they'd try to get me to accept less Bitcoins to coincide with the USD value, versus them forcing me to accept the same amount of coins, even though the value has fallen by half since then.

Like I said, they're having their cake and eating it too.

So, what is it Minersource? Refunds based on actual BTC paid or the exchange rate with USD? Pick one and I'll accept it as long as you apply this rule retroactively to anyone who ordered Blackarrow related products. Is that fair enough for you?

[SirWizz]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid in US dollars (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

Edit - clarity.

[bobsag3]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

And that's the problem. They choose the option where the value is less, regardless of the exchange rate.

Theres a clear different between pre-orders up thru april that took BTC and said BTC was forwarded BA, and further orders when we switched to Bitpay and Shopify and BTC was then cashed out to USD and sent to BA. Pretty simple.

[SirWizz]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

And that's the problem. They choose the option where the value is less, regardless of the exchange rate.

They can't do that - not legally as far as I know. You entered in a contract to buy goods and services at say US $5,000. If you get a refund, the refund value should be $5,000-processing fee (if there is one) regardless if they choose to refund you in Bitcoin or US dollars. Entering into a contract to buy goods and services is not the same as buying shares or currency where the value of your holdings is prone to market swings.

[SirWizz]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

And that's the problem. They choose the option where the value is less, regardless of the exchange rate.

Theres a clear different between pre-orders up thru april that took BTC and said BTC was forwarded BA, and further orders when we switched to Bitpay and Shopify and BTC was then cashed out to USD and sent to BA. Pretty simple.

The arrangement between you and your supplier is irrelevant to the contract between you and your customers. If someone ordered $5,000 worth of merchandise and paid you, you have to refund them the same amount in whatever currency you choose to refund in. Anything else means your "refund" is not really a refund at all.

[jimmothy]

So for the compensation we need a definitive answer.

Are you shipping 2 TH/s for each X-3 order when the shipping date supposedly starts about one week from now? Is this the final answer here?

If you can't or are not willing to definitively confirm then we're going to have to start pursuing refunds.

Every single week you guys want a definitive answer on compensation. Don't you understand that it's pointless for them to keep adjusting compensation before they begin shipping?

If you aren't happy with them then please just get a refund already because the constant bitching is annoying.

[jimmothy]

They have already said compensation will go out after shipping.

What do you think they are planning to do? Arbitrarily wait a month before giving it to us?

[ninjaboon]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

And that's the problem. They choose the option where the value is less, regardless of the exchange rate.

Theres a clear different between pre-orders up thru april that took BTC and said BTC was forwarded BA, and further orders when we switched to Bitpay and Shopify and BTC was then cashed out to USD and sent to BA. Pretty simple.

The arrangement between you and your supplier is irrelevant to the contract between you and your customers. If someone ordered $5,000 worth of merchandise and paid you, you have to refund them the same amount in whatever currency you choose to refund in. Anything else means your "refund" is not really a refund at all.

+1, I agree because it should not matter to the customer.
"The arrangement between you and your supplier is irrelevant to the contract between you and your customers."

[nexus99]

I think regardless of what they refund you in - Bitcoin or USD it is OK as long as the value of the refund is the same as what you originally paid (minus a processing fee if they charge one).

And that's the problem. They choose the option where the value is less, regardless of the exchange rate.

Theres a clear different between pre-orders up thru april that took BTC and said BTC was forwarded BA, and further orders when we switched to Bitpay and Shopify and BTC was then cashed out to USD and sent to BA. Pretty simple.

The arrangement between you and your supplier is irrelevant to the contract between you and your customers. If someone ordered $5,000 worth of merchandise and paid you, you have to refund them the same amount in whatever currency you choose to refund in. Anything else means your "refund" is not really a refund at all.

For the most part the general consensus I have seen is that people should be refunded in the 'currency' / "medium of exchange" that was used to make the purchase. If you give someone 3 chickens for a BTC miner... then its worth 3 chickens. If I give someone 12 pesos... its worth 12 pesos.  The relative value of chickens to pesos is irrelevant. If you want to value things in US dollars you should buy from companies that accept US dollars for payment.

[nwfella]

And a quick glance at the last two pages worth of replies to this thread is resulted in my using a permanent marker to cross out Black Arrow's name from my list of viable ASIC manufacturers.

All of my ASIC investments thus far have been at least moderate fails at this point.

[me2014]

they need to give their opinion about compensation before shipping because that gives to some customer clear picture of their costs-in some countries tax are big and if BA does not thing to provide some hosting plan for compensation so they can go for refund...

[nexus99]

they need to give their opinion about compensation before shipping because that gives to some customer clear picture of their costs-in some countries tax are big and if BA does not thing to provide some hosting plan for compensation so they can go for refund...

I hope you are talking about X-3. The X-1 boat has sailed I think.

[mazedk]

After two months of "next week" it seems BA has changed their tune, David says "this week" on their forum. KnC was "[last week]" @ 20nm.

How are the X1 customers doing? Enjoying your 100Gh/s miner?

My X-1 is blowing my mind.

[5craziest]

17 billion difficulty next jump, all on board!

F#^&, that's like another 20%

[5craziest]

There's going to be a jump of almost 30 Petahash in 6 days.

Does anyone know the reasons why there is so large difficulty jump (around 25%) this time?

Some new mines being started somewhere? The hardware being replaced in established mines?

If so, do you know which mines and what is their Petahash input?

Could it be the Neptunes from KnC?

[bobsag3]

Its all out for delivery, so we should have here in a few hours.

[fivejonnyfive]

So ready to hear from Bobsag today that all of the boxes have arrived safe and sound and that the testing is underway and they will be reshipped today overnight for delivery tomorrow!  That would seriously be almost better news than my now fiancee saying yes to my proposal last Friday

Off topic, but congrats dude!

[ChuckBuck]

So ready to hear from Bobsag today that all of the boxes have arrived safe and sound and that the testing is underway and they will be reshipped today overnight for delivery tomorrow!  That would seriously be almost better news than my now fiancee saying yes to my proposal last Friday

Off topic, but congrats dude!

Indeed, congrats Debit on your upcoming nuptials!   

Back on topic, should we expect both Minersource Batch 1 and 2 X-1 orders to arrive sometime this week, or is it most likely next week?

[3DX4D]

Its all out for delivery, so we should have here in a few hours.

WHOOP WHOOP! Totally psyched!

Yes very exciting in deed.  Personally I can't wait to get my now useless miners that will ROI exactly never.  It's even more exciting as I asked several times via email and in person (met Dan at the BTC Expo in Toronto) over the last few months for a refund.  Not a single email to support was returned and although Dan did communicate with me via email after the Expo and indicated he would personally make sure my refund was taken care of I was never contacted).  I was told by Dan someone from Minersource team would contact me and assured me a refund would take place.  I have not received contact from MS and was never refunded.  While chatting with nicely with Dan at the TO Expo I told him I paid in BTC.  His response was that they could not refund in BTC but would have to do a USD refund, which I was OK with

I ordered 4 X-1's in late Nov or early Dec 2013, started asking for a refund as soon as they announced missing the late Feb delivery date.

Over all I would have to say I'm a disappointed customer of Miner Source, I do understand they don't control the manufacturing process but I had a sales contract with Miner Source to deliver a retail product I don't have a sales contract with BA.  I have been patient, polite and reasonable mostly because 4 X-1's isn't worth me getting all bent out of shape over.

Lesson learned on my part for sure, I will simply wait for the now essentially useless unwanted hardware at this point.  

I am out of the mining race to the bottom for now.  I will continue to hold (and hopefully buy up some more) coins.  I would like to mine but centralized large scale mining seems to be the way of the future, if big business is here, little Joe's like me are better off not playing.  I hope I'm wrong and if I am I will happily mine again.

[CryptoGuy]

I like how BA hasn't bothered to lower the price of their miners even as other manufacturers drop their prices and release new miners. $373 for 100gh was barely a good deal back in December. I sense it's just another way of them manipulating their compensation. I just can't see anyone buying those in the last month thinking it's a good deal. Maybe that's why they don't want to talk compensation, they probably haven't had any more money roll in since they got people to pre-order their compensation power supplies.

No money coming in means no money to build compensation units. If they lower the price to get more people to buy in then their compensation numbers go up even higher as they promised to send extra hashing power if they lowered the price.