thenotfatguy
Member
 Offline
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
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May 10, 2014, 11:09:31 AM |
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nice promo @thenotfatguy!  Indeed! Excellent idea. Let us know if you need any 888 to top up the tip-bot for the promotion. Happy to oblige. Thanks guys, I'm fine with 888 for now. As I promised that I will have paid forward part of what you guys gave me last week, and it looks like we are just shy of 100, not bad  I will see what else i can come up with to spread word of Octo |
888 - 8bse7MESKBNGz9BixUCo5Z1cKJKVV5tZC7
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Winky
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May 10, 2014, 01:45:09 PM |
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nice promo @thenotfatguy! Indeed! Excellent idea. Let us know if you need any 888 to top up the tip-bot for the promotion. Happy to oblige. Thanks guys, I'm fine with 888 for now. As I promised that I will have paid forward part of what you guys gave me last week, and it looks like we are just shy of 100, not bad I will see what else i can come up with to spread word of Octo Can anyone get hold of a live Octopus with a talent for predicting the results of FIFA World Cup matches this summer? Got a lot of publicity last time around, I can see it now, Paul the Octopus II sponsored by the OctoCoin community =) Really nice idea! |
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JesstersDead
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
I forgot where I put my wallet.dat
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May 10, 2014, 05:41:44 PM |
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I moved out of altcoins for the most part back in November, and haven't really been watching the altcoin market since then. Which I suppose is odd as I Moderate @ Cryptsy. But I pointed a couple rigs at 888 a few weeks back and am very happy I did. While I have no idea what cloud based services the dev team is working on, I have a feeling this coin could be a very well kept secret. Been a while since I was excited to see what a coin does once the major exchanges pick it up. I have traded BTC exclusively since last year, so this should be a lot of fun. Glad to be in on the ride |
Cryptsy.com - USD markets coming soon. Go validate your account now!
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karkkis
Member
Offline
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
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May 10, 2014, 06:57:52 PM |
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I moved out of altcoins for the most part back in November, and haven't really been watching the altcoin market since then. Which I suppose is odd as I Moderate @ Cryptsy. But I pointed a couple rigs at 888 a few weeks back and am very happy I did. While I have no idea what cloud based services the dev team is working on, I have a feeling this coin could be a very well kept secret. Been a while since I was excited to see what a coin does once the major exchanges pick it up. I have traded BTC exclusively since last year, so this should be a lot of fun. Glad to be in on the ride Welcome welcome! For me, this is one of the most sincere bitcoin threads and altcoins. No to so many people with unquestionable motives and FUD spreading etc. Just people mining their thing. |
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ozie
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May 11, 2014, 04:31:08 PM |
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Its not strange its just Multipools having found a way to calculate the "random" 888 rewards. All coins with random Rewards suffered this Problem and some like Fluttercoin even changed their Reward System because of this Problem. But Octo Devs do not care about the technical Aspect of their coin as they have proven multiple times already. No KGW/NGW/DGW or whatever solution and an easily predictable random function in the Reward System makes this Coin a Multipools little Bitch. I dont know what all these other programming Projects are but if they dont keep an very close eye on the mining aspect there will be a horrible distribution and Multipools supressing the price by dumping all the special rewards. |
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whiteali
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
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May 11, 2014, 06:10:12 PM |
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@Stonerboy it seems more likely because every addresses listed above bank every octocoin they mined. Multipool should redistribute their "finding"
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MEGAman
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I'm gonna clean up this town
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May 11, 2014, 06:19:10 PM |
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Since OctoCoin calculates the randomness based on the solution to the previous block, it isn't calculated until a block is solved, right? The only possibility here is that the multipool script waits around for an 888 reward block to pop up and switches all of the miners over to Octo. If, once the block is found, the next block is only 88 coins the multipool could jump out of Octo. This clearly isn't a good thing long-term but the Octo devs suggested this was the reason they weren't pushing to get Octo on a big exchange until after the bonus blocks were done. Another bonus is that with 88 second block times, it would surely limit the return for multipools. Depending on how many shares they lose jumping all of the miners to and from OctoCoin they might actually be hurting their returns. So while this method would surely net them more 888 reward blocks than average, they might not be getting that great of a return. Quite often the 888 block is probably found before all of the miners on the multipools even get a chance to submit their shares meaning a lot of stale shares would be lost. Coin calculators aren't great because the difficulty is all over the place and usually sticks on higher difficulties for longer than lower difficulties. Also, looking at those linked addresses, I see a lot of 888 blocks recently but if you scroll down it seems to pretty much average out? Most multipools don't really think things through that well. Also, regarding the difficulty adjustment, OctoCoin's formula seems to work pretty well. It doesn't punish consistent miners as bad as KGW does because it limits the fluctuation. I hope they don't change it.
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kskwerl
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May 12, 2014, 12:19:06 AM |
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I just jumped on fusion hash with 83MH with my asics, network hash is 339 and the pool hash is 340
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edric
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May 12, 2014, 06:31:25 AM |
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I've kinda sorta been keeping my eye on it as well, but it's definitely reassuring to know that people have been comparing earnings vs FH and that my pool is on the right track. I really haven't been able to do the research here, but what MEGAman was saying makes some sense. I've thought some on actually putting some elbow grease in and setting up a multipool of my own, but I've kinda abandoned that idea, multipools just seem to rub everyone the wrong way, too much work, lots of risk, etc. But, nonetheless, I'm glad there's nothing wrong with the pool. When the bonus blocks are gone, maybe there won't be so much to worry about. Anyway, I'd like to announce that, tentatively, within 2 days time, I'm going to have another game up and running for 888. If I have the time to make the final touches I'll try to have it ready by tomorrow. I'm going to keep the premise of the game a surprise until it's ready, but I will say that it has an invest system, so that has potential to make people some extra coin, if it becomes popular. I'll want to test everything out pretty thoroughly before I'd encourage heavy investing and betting but so far I'm pretty confident it's going to be good! I haven't decided if I'm going to keep the grid game running or not, that depends on if people want to play I was hoping to get more work done this weekend but I've been feeling pretty awful the past couple of days. It seems like since we've moved that I just cannot get anything done, like being in this house is somehow counterproductive. I did get the pool's software up to date early this morning, lots of improvements to MPOS, haven't done much of a test drive yet. Please PM me if anything funny happens. See you guys soon PS. kskwerl, you're welcome to bring some of your asics to Fedaykin's Pool, spread the love :b |
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OctoCoin (OP)
Member
Offline
Activity: 164
Merit: 10
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May 12, 2014, 06:54:05 AM |
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As of this post, we are approaching block 62,400; the bonus blocks do not end until block 94,255. The largest pool is FusionHash and over the past 7 days, blocks have averaged 135 coins/block. While 5016 blocks were found in 96% of the expected time... that 4% obviously does not make up the difference as the block rewards should average out to roughly 188 coins/block.
The issue isn't exactly an exploit as much as it is an unavoidable situation - Dogecoin dealt with the same issue where farms would hit it as soon as a larger block reward was detected and bounce off when a below average block was detected. As a result, standard pools were getting a disproportionate percentage of smaller blocks. The question of whether or not this is an efficient strategy for them is irrelevant - whether they are losing shares or not, consistent miners are not getting the return they expect and that's more important to us than cheaters not actually getting the benefits they think they are. Of course the more hash power we have steadily mining 888 in dedicated pools/etc the better but this is definitely an issue we need to address right away. The Dogecoin developers have approached this a certain way but obviously the random rewards play a bigger role in their coin than in OctoCoin - the bonus blocks are set to end in just over a month.
We did not foresee this being an issue until OctoCoin was trading on a larger exchange. Unfortunately, there are enough people out there that recognize the potential OctoCoin has and are taking advantage of the bonus blocks for the long game.
We had a discussion this afternoon and came to the conclusion that we will absolutely need to fork at some point to resolve this - we don't want to go through another 32,000 blocks with sub-par returns and as much as we hate to fork, it is the right play here. This is where we turn to the community to get some feedback on preferences:
We could make adjustments to the randomization strategy that, as somebody suggested previously, would incorporate the time stamps of randomly selected previous blocks based on a sliding formula and additional factors in determining the value of the block. While we are confident this would make it quite difficult to exploit the random bonus blocks the way it's being done now, we cannot guarantee it won't happen again. We considered implementing a central-server just through the bonus block phase which would crunch the numbers in a way that would make it impossible to exploit, but ultimately agreed this was both unorthodox and overkill.
Another option is that we could just ditch the bonus blocks and change the block rewards to a static 188 coins/block. Most OctoCoin miners are consistently mining OctoCoin anyway so at this point that means a bigger ROI. Another advantage is that right out of the gates it means a more stable hash rate, fewer orphans, and less all-around BS. This is my personal choice but, during today's meeting, one of the guys expressed concerns that this changes the basic specifications of OctoCoin and might upset people. In my opinion, the only people this would upset are the people exploiting the bonus blocks but I understand where he is coming from.
So go ahead and post your feedback here over the next 24 hours or so - we are planning on releasing the new client within 72 hours (it will also contain a handful of tweaks and fixes in addition to the bonus block adjustments). There are approximately 980 OctoCoin blocks/day so assuming we release the new client in 72 hours, we would be somewhere around block #65,360. If we set the fork to occur at block #68,888 that would give us 3 1/2 - 4 days after the client is released to ensure everybody is updated. Obviously the main concerns would be the various smaller exchanges 888 is trading on, all of the pools, etc.
So this is the plan we've come up with and we would love some feedback from the community to help assist us in choosing the best way to proceed. If anybody is adamantly opposed to anything here, please speak up and explain why. Most of us are somewhat new to the crypto world and, despite learning more and more every day, our extensive software development background doesn't necessarily mean OctoCoin itself cannot continue to be improved. The ultimate strength of OctoCoin will come from our products and services but it's important that the coin, community and distribution remain as solid as they possibly can be to ensure the OctoCoin economy moves smoothly from our vision into reality.
Once again, we really appreciate the patience and support of this community - we are proud to have all of you in the OctoCoin family. There is some truly awesome stuff to come but, for now, we just need to ensure a strong foundation.
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coinz4fun
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 62
Merit: 0
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May 12, 2014, 07:05:59 AM |
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For all who in octo theme!
We must vote more active on mintpal!!!
I make minimum 5-6 votes every day, but i see how some outsiders become higher then octo, and it is really sad...
Please be more active, it's our interest to give this coin future!
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OctoCoin (OP)
Member
Offline
Activity: 164
Merit: 10
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May 12, 2014, 07:41:38 AM |
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As of this post, we are approaching block 62,400; the bonus blocks do not end until block 94,255. The largest pool is FusionHash and over the past 7 days, blocks have averaged 135 coins/block. While 5016 blocks were found in 96% of the expected time... that 4% obviously does not make up the difference as the block rewards should average out to roughly 188 coins/block.
The issue isn't exactly an exploit as much as it is an unavoidable situation - Dogecoin dealt with the same issue where farms would hit it as soon as a larger block reward was detected and bounce off when a below average block was detected. As a result, standard pools were getting a disproportionate percentage of smaller blocks. The question of whether or not this is an efficient strategy for them is irrelevant - whether they are losing shares or not, consistent miners are not getting the return they expect and that's more important to us than cheaters not actually getting the benefits they think they are. Of course the more hash power we have steadily mining 888 in dedicated pools/etc the better but this is definitely an issue we need to address right away. The Dogecoin developers have approached this a certain way but obviously the random rewards play a bigger role in their coin than in OctoCoin - the bonus blocks are set to end in just over a month.
We did not foresee this being an issue until OctoCoin was trading on a larger exchange. Unfortunately, there are enough people out there that recognize the potential OctoCoin has and are taking advantage of the bonus blocks for the long game.
We had a discussion this afternoon and came to the conclusion that we will absolutely need to fork at some point to resolve this - we don't want to go through another 32,000 blocks with sub-par returns and as much as we hate to fork, it is the right play here. This is where we turn to the community to get some feedback on preferences:
We could make adjustments to the randomization strategy that, as somebody suggested previously, would incorporate the time stamps of randomly selected previous blocks based on a sliding formula and additional factors in determining the value of the block. While we are confident this would make it quite difficult to exploit the random bonus blocks the way it's being done now, we cannot guarantee it won't happen again. We considered implementing a central-server just through the bonus block phase which would crunch the numbers in a way that would make it impossible to exploit, but ultimately agreed this was both unorthodox and overkill.
Another option is that we could just ditch the bonus blocks and change the block rewards to a static 188 coins/block. Most OctoCoin miners are consistently mining OctoCoin anyway so at this point that means a bigger ROI. Another advantage is that right out of the gates it means a more stable hash rate, fewer orphans, and less all-around BS. This is my personal choice but, during today's meeting, one of the guys expressed concerns that this changes the basic specifications of OctoCoin and might upset people. In my opinion, the only people this would upset are the people exploiting the bonus blocks but I understand where he is coming from.
So go ahead and post your feedback here over the next 24 hours or so - we are planning on releasing the new client within 72 hours (it will also contain a handful of tweaks and fixes in addition to the bonus block adjustments). There are approximately 980 OctoCoin blocks/day so assuming we release the new client in 72 hours, we would be somewhere around block #65,360. If we set the fork to occur at block #68,888 that would give us 3 1/2 - 4 days after the client is released to ensure everybody is updated. Obviously the main concerns would be the various smaller exchanges 888 is trading on, all of the pools, etc.
So this is the plan we've come up with and we would love some feedback from the community to help assist us in choosing the best way to proceed. If anybody is adamantly opposed to anything here, please speak up and explain why. Most of us are somewhat new to the crypto world and, despite learning more and more every day, our extensive software development background doesn't necessarily mean OctoCoin itself cannot continue to be improved. The ultimate strength of OctoCoin will come from our products and services but it's important that the coin, community and distribution remain as solid as they possibly can be to ensure the OctoCoin economy moves smoothly from our vision into reality.
Once again, we really appreciate the patience and support of this community - we are proud to have all of you in the OctoCoin family. There is some truly awesome stuff to come but, for now, we just need to ensure a strong foundation.
A standard block reward of 188 for the remainder of this phase seems to be the most practical solution to me, I would definitely vote for that. My only concern would be that everything possible is done to prevent the chaotic multiple forks that seem to accompany any hard fork these days. How do you manage/control that? We will update both hard-coded DNS notes as well as the nodes from the original post. As long as people are updated to the latest client days before the hard fork occurs, I believe it will continue forward without a hitch. We maintain all of the nodes ourselves and will even fire up a few additional nodes just in case. A lot of problems occur because most coins have random nodes that are dead or outdated and then the process becomes a sloppy mess. I've seen coins where people are suggesting a list of 20+ nodes and 2/3 of them aren't even online - our nodes remain online 24/7 and are always current. Another bonus is that we're doing it before the network gets too massive. We already experimented with a hard fork on the testnet and there were zero issues. We will keep a close eye on things throughout the process. We now have 2 members of the 888 team that will officially be dedicated to the project full-time. As this has been a side project for all of us up until this point, the collaboration alone took up huge portions of our development time. Everything is starting to come together and hopefully this fork will prove to be just a minor bump in the road. Personally, I view it as a priority. |
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whiteali
Newbie
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Activity: 5
Merit: 0
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May 12, 2014, 08:29:00 AM |
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I personally also vote for a standard block reward of 188 !
The randomness was fun, but is supposed to be also 188 block reward in the end, and for know it is spoiled by the one who exploit the mechanism.
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JesstersDead
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
I forgot where I put my wallet.dat
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May 12, 2014, 10:02:15 AM |
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+1 for setting block reward to 188.
And thanks dev team for looking in to the issue.
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Cryptsy.com - USD markets coming soon. Go validate your account now!
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peterw
Newbie
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Activity: 29
Merit: 0
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May 12, 2014, 02:21:49 PM
Last edit: May 12, 2014, 02:47:05 PM by peterw |
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If it goes to 188 for every block, does that increase the total coins for octocoin? Or does it keep the total coins the same and shorten the length of the bonus block phase? Or something else?
Edit: or was 188 the expected average now? If so, maybe changing to that means no change in the total coins for octo?
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Sheryl Dimakiling73
Newbie
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Activity: 19
Merit: 0
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May 12, 2014, 02:22:33 PM |
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Great job 888 Team! your hard work is reflected in the recent price hike. Keep up the good
work!
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Stewart
Newbie
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Activity: 4
Merit: 0
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May 12, 2014, 02:23:13 PM |
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dev,I will be keeping track of you.
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kcanup
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1000
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May 12, 2014, 04:24:30 PM |
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What is happening here?  Btw, i managed to recover coins from my broken wallet and transfer them to a fresh wallet with the help of a new wallet, thanks a lot for update  |
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