Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[sorehammer]

You just chose the wrong time to try and calm people down to many broken promises and to many broken delivery dates. And a few trools stirring things up affecting people's normal commonsense.

[sirsmokesalot]

Well I am sorry you consider it trolling.

This is actually my 7th Post in this thread the first 4 talked about my orders and questions about the miner.

As for MinePeon I meant the MinePeon Forum http://minepeon.com/forums/ I have spent a lot of time helping people out there with hardware problems.

I am sorry if I offended anyone. I did not mean to offend people, I did not mean to start arguments, I just thought it would be nice to have a more positive thread.

I am done with this conversation please do not reply about this it is pointless I do not want to argue.
I am sorry I said anything.

Have a good day 

If this was April right now then i certainly think we would all feel more for your sentiment. Best of luck to you in life! May the force be with you!

[musicmaker613]

I have to agree with Xukanik to an extent.  The "mob mentality" in this thread is getting just stupid ridiculous.  For two reasons:

1) We all knew (or at least should have known) that by placing a pre-order we could easily end up in this situation.  I mean, it's not like this has never happened before with pre-order ASICs...  Enough people waded through these waters way before the Prospero/Minion was even announced that every single one of us knew the pitfalls.  Now everyone's just mad they took the gamble and lost.  It's the same reaction I've seen at blackjack tables.  Someone goes all in to double-down on an 11, gets a 2, looses everything.  Then they storm off like they're mad at the dealer/casino for taking their money, forgetting they put the cash on the table to begin with.  I'm not saying BA is in the clear and has no responsibility, but we can't honestly act totally surprised either.

2) Nobody, especially BA, cares what you have to say in your angry rant post.  They say they care, and maybe they do a little, but demanding 6TH or else, talking about getting "the police" involved, etc will more than likely go ignored like the white noise it has become.

Again, I'm not taking up for BA.  Just pointing out that over half of this thread is an exercise in futility.  The really interesting thing is the contrast between BA's thread and other ASIC manufacturers' threads.  Have you looked at the BFL Monarch threads?  Sure, there's people who are impatient and some who are downright angry, but it's nowhere near as hostile as this thread or the ecointalk thread.  And they've been strung out twice as long as us.  Either BFL's customers are just more patient, or BFL is better at getting people to drink the Koolaid than BA.

[ChuckBuck]

I have to agree with Xukanik to an extent.  The "mob mentality" in this thread is getting just stupid ridiculous.  For two reasons:

1) We all knew (or at least should have known) that by placing a pre-order we could easily end up in this situation.  I mean, it's not like this has never happened before with pre-order ASICs...  Enough people waded through these waters way before the Prospero/Minion was even announced that every single one of us knew the pitfalls.  Now everyone's just mad they took the gamble and lost.  It's the same reaction I've seen at blackjack tables.  Someone goes all in to double-down on an 11, gets a 2, looses everything.  Then they storm off like they're mad at the dealer/casino for taking their money, forgetting they put the cash on the table to begin with.  I'm not saying BA is in the clear and has no responsibility, but we can't honestly act totally surprised either.

2) Nobody, especially BA, cares what you have to say in your angry rant post.  They say they care, and maybe they do a little, but demanding 6TH or else, talking about getting "the police" involved, etc will more than likely go ignored like the white noise it has become.

Again, I'm not taking up for BA.  Just pointing out that over half of this thread is an exercise in futility.  The really interesting thing is the contrast between BA's thread and other ASIC manufacturers' threads.  Have you looked at the BFL Monarch threads?  Sure, there's people who are impatient and some who are downright angry, but it's nowhere near as hostile as this thread or the ecointalk thread.  And they've been strung out twice as long as us.  Either BFL's customers are just more patient, or BFL is better at getting people to drink the Koolaid than BA.

Koolaid.  They want to believe in the miracle that is the Monarch.  That, and BFL's threads are heavily moderated, so they'll delete any critical and negative posts yesterday!   

[musicmaker613]

Koolaid.  They want to believe in the miracle that is the Monarch.  That, and BFL's threads are heavily moderated, so they'll delete any critical and negative posts yesterday!   

Yeah, you're probably right about that.  But I have to say, I get pretty riled up about the Monarch.  And I didn't even order one.  How they had new/repeat customers after the SC ASIC debacle is beyond me.

[Majixagi]

BFL is US based which means it is easier to go after legally. This is happening. It gives people a sense of empowerment to be able to do something legally about the issue. BFL has been known to delay and fail for a long time now, but they have a longer history of eventually shipping a working product. Anyone buying in with them since the original ASICs knows that they will have a delay of some sort.

BA understood the BFL problem and told us that they would not repeat it. BA told us that the end of February was a very conservative shipping date that they would probably be able to easily beat. BA has done a significantly worse job in the PR department than BFL by deflecting questions, refusing to provide straight talk about what is going on, and by constantly being caught in lies (or they are just terribly disorganized). All of this has generated additional concern about the ability for BA to ship a working Prospero at spec.

Yeah, people are jaded toward BFL. BA was supposed to be different.

Some people (tracyhh) are taking this to the nth degree, but most people are just expressing frustration that is completely justified. If BA is a legitimate company they are probably expressing commentary internally that is just as frustrated, if not more, about the numerous issues they have had. It's part of human nature. If someone doesn't like reading this they certainly don't have to. You won't find any useful information from BA unique to this forum, so there is no need to read it in order to keep up. bobsag3 has some information from time to time, so just read his posts and ignore the rest if you aren't interested.

In the mean time, hopefully this ongoing saga will be interesting for future potential customers if BA decides to attempt a second generation miner. It will give those potential customers a more realistic picture of what BA is capable of producing and in what time frame.

[tempestb]

I think at the moment there are some realistic concerns that Black Arrow should address for its customers.

The first is the mystery surrounding compensation and the extra PSU's and shipping charges.  If they are that close to shipping as they say, this needs to be addressed.  People need to know what they need to know.  David and anyone else that monitors this forum should start to ask about this, because while shipping is important, people want to be sure they have ordered the necessary hardware and paid the shipping if that is what is needed.  Or if Black Arrow intends to compensate people further by including those things in the release, they need to let people know who have already purchased the PSU's and are now wondering if that was a mistake.

This needs answering.  It's important.

The obvious requests for further compensation above and beyond what was already promised is warranted based upon Black Arrow's own promise to match the value of what they ship vs the competitor's shipping.  This was not just mentioned way back in 2013, but also recently.  Black Arrow intends to live up to that promise, so if they make their shipping dates as expected, it's time to state what it is they intend to do.  People want to know, not just out of interest, but also because as miners we make strategic purchases to keep our hash-rate up.  If we're going to get more or less hash from Black Arrow, we need to know so we can plan our next moves.  

So it's time now for Black Arrow to discuss their compensation plan to live up to this promise, or just admit that they cannot afford to do more than they have, and live with the consequences.  The issue isn't going to go away, but it could bring about better customer morale if we hear about what the plan is going forward.

There are other questions on the table, but these two are the most important in my mind.  A lot of us have been very patient (A few of us have not been) and it's time for Black Arrow to provide the needed information.  Nobody wants to get a box in the mail with missing parts due to lack of information.

[HardwareReviewer]

I think at the moment there are some realistic concerns that Black Arrow should address for its customers.

The first is the mystery surrounding compensation and the extra PSU's and shipping charges.  If they are that close to shipping as they say, this needs to be addressed.  People need to know what they need to know.  David and anyone else that monitors this forum should start to ask about this, because while shipping is important, people want to be sure they have ordered the necessary hardware and paid the shipping if that is what is needed.  Or if Black Arrow intends to compensate people further by including those things in the release, they need to let people know who have already purchased the PSU's and are now wondering if that was a mistake.

This needs answering.  It's important.

The obvious requests for further compensation above and beyond what was already promised is warranted based upon Black Arrow's own promise to match the value of what they ship vs the competitor's shipping.  This was not just mentioned way back in 2013, but also recently.  Black Arrow intends to live up to that promise, so if they make their shipping dates as expected, it's time to state what it is they intend to do.  People want to know, not just out of interest, but also because as miners we make strategic purchases to keep our hash-rate up.  If we're going to get more or less hash from Black Arrow, we need to know so we can plan our next moves.  

So it's time now for Black Arrow to discuss their compensation plan to live up to this promise, or just admit that they cannot afford to do more than they have, and live with the consequences.  The issue isn't going to go away, but it could bring about better customer morale if we hear about what the plan is going forward.

There are other questions on the table, but these two are the most important in my mind.  A lot of us have been very patient (A few of us have not been) and it's time for Black Arrow to provide the needed information.  Nobody wants to get a box in the mail with missing parts due to lack of information.

Well said.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Cant we all just get along?

Yes it sucks that there are lots of delays,
Why do we have multiple pages per day of people complaining.
Nothing much can happen in 1 day. Maybe every 2 weeks have a talk about it.

I feel sorry for BobSagg3 and others from Minersource and BlackArrow having to waist their time reading all these threads of unhappy people.

There is nothing we can do it is out of our hands, let's just wait for them to arrive or if you are really unhappy then try for a refund. But fighting in forums does nothing good.

They are doing the best they can! and sending them X-1's out now and they got the X-3's working.
As for compensation, yea it sucks, Yea everyone wants this and that.
But they are already giving us a pretty good compensation and remember this is a small company that is trying to sell their product they are not made of gold and can give us all 5 times what we purchased.

This sucks as much for them as for us.

Shit happens.

Let's relax and await for our product and talk positively.

I can not wait to receive my 3 X-1's they are replacing my old blades that I just stoped using due to their efficiency and heat during the summer. They were awesome for the Winter I have my server room under the stairs with a vent i put n on the landing and it heated my house during the winter lol. Heck I might use them again next winter for heat not much less efficient than a heater + mining.

Thanks

Ash

Nice try with the newbie account BA!  You get no sympathy from us, especially after tying customers money as early as September in some cases.

Disgruntled, angry, and frustrated customers is what you get when you overpromise and underdeliver(don't deliver?) on time.

With all due respect, Chuck, the dude ONLY had 19 posts to read, one of which is the following that convinces me that he's his own man.

Double post from ecointalk.org. But yay.

> Your order has been completed. Thank you for choosing us.

Order #576
    Status: Complete
    Date: 08 Nov 2013, 16:05
    Payment method: Bank Transfer
    Shipping method: DHL

I'm not sure where I stood in the queue, although I am fairly certain that I ordered quite early and paid ASAP. (I have a fuzzy memory of reading somewhere that payment arrival date might matter.)

(Disclaimer: I also let customer support know, just in case it might matter, that nothing else was relevant to me -- case or no case, Pi or no Pi, LCD or no LCD, GUI or no GUI, PSU or no PSU... just as long as it would hash at anything near the stated rate, I would accept it. I cannot say if my "anything that hashes" request influenced anything from a shipment perspective.)

I will report back as soon as I receive notice from DHL, and of course as soon as I get the shipment cleared in customs and the hardware out of the box. Could take a while, still.

Well if he/she is order #576
I ordered my first one on 12/14/2013 and that order is #1197
Then ordered a 2nd one on 04/29/2014 to get the 3rd free one Order #2411
3rd PSU on 05/11/2014 Order #2789

So from Nov 08 to Dec 14 they had ~621 orders counting cancellation etc...
Then from Dec 14 to April 29 they had ~1214
and April 29 - May 11 ~378

But this is all orders not just Black Arrow Miners.

So there are a lot of Orders from Nov 08 to Dec 14 ~621 in 5 weeks.

So if anyone else gets a shipment it would be cool to tell us your order number so we have an Idea of approximately when we are next.

That said, bud, it looks like BA doesn't have that many orders to assemble according to the numbers. I bet the Mt Wafers dudes were laughing their asses off when the mega-order for chips hit their email account, going as far as ordering 100 more boxcars of silicon sand.

[SirWizz]

Not sure how many orders they have but I doubt people will line up to buy from these guys again - but then again there were people who still ordered Monarchs from BFL, so there might still be hope for BA after all o.O

[Majixagi]

This is some of the most masterful shilling I've ever read. If you're not getting some kind of financial compensation from BA for doing this, you're doing it wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

[Majixagi]

This is some of the most masterful shilling I've ever read. If you're not getting some kind of financial compensation from BA for doing this, you're doing it wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

Bullshit PR spin is not about shoving rainbows and unicorns down peoples' incredulous throats, it's about writing the kind of thing you did.

You clearly struggle with the English language.

EDIT: Maybe the dots just aren't close enough together for some people to understand. I'll try to fix it for you:

BFL is US based which means it is easier to go after legally. This is happening. It gives people a sense of empowerment to be able to do something legally about the issue. BFL has been known to delay and fail for a long time now, but they have a longer history of eventually shipping a working product. Anyone buying in with them since the original ASICs knows that they will have a delay of some sort. BA is in China and tries to hide their personnel, so we have trouble finding a legal outlet.

BA claimed that they understood the BFL problem and told us that they would not repeat it. BA told us that the end of February was a very conservative shipping date that they would probably be able to easily beat. They obviously failed to deliver by a significant margin. They suck. BA has done a significantly worse job in the PR department than BFL by deflecting questions, refusing to provide straight talk about what is going on, and by constantly being caught in lies (or they are just terribly disorganized). All of this has generated additional concern about the ability for BA to ship a working Prospero at spec. In other words, their ability to produce working product is still questionable.

Yeah, people are jaded toward BFL. BA was supposed to be different, but they have proven that they are not.

Some people (tracyhh) are taking this to the nth degree, but most people are just expressing frustration that is completely justified. If BA is a legitimate company, and I think that should be questioned, they are probably expressing commentary internally that is just as frustrated, if not more, about the numerous issues they have had. It's part of human nature, so don't complain about people complaining here. If someone doesn't like reading this they certainly don't have to. You won't find any useful information from BA unique to this forum, so there is no need to read it in order to keep up. bobsag3 has some information from time to time, so just read his posts and ignore the rest if you aren't interested.

In the mean time, hopefully this ongoing saga will be interesting for future potential customers if BA decides to attempt a second generation miner. It will give those potential customers a more realistic picture of what BA is capable of producing and in what time frame. In other words, lots of delays just like BFL, and possibly not even a fully functioning product. This should keep reasonable people from purchasing BA product in the future, therefore every complaint is worth the effort it takes to write it.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This is some of the most masterful shilling I've ever read. If you're not getting some kind of financial compensation from BA for doing this, you're doing it wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

Bullshit PR spin is not about shoving rainbows and unicorns down peoples' incredulous throats, it's about writing the kind of thing you did.

You clearly struggle with the English language.

EDIT: Maybe the dots just aren't close enough together for some people to understand. I'll try to fix it for you:

BFL is US based which means it is easier to go after legally. This is happening. It gives people a sense of empowerment to be able to do something legally about the issue. BFL has been known to delay and fail for a long time now, but they have a longer history of eventually shipping a working product. Anyone buying in with them since the original ASICs knows that they will have a delay of some sort. BA is in China and tries to hide their personnel, so we have trouble finding a legal outlet.

BA claimed that they understood the BFL problem and told us that they would not repeat it. BA told us that the end of February was a very conservative shipping date that they would probably be able to easily beat. They obviously failed to deliver by a significant margin. They suck. BA has done a significantly worse job in the PR department than BFL by deflecting questions, refusing to provide straight talk about what is going on, and by constantly being caught in lies (or they are just terribly disorganized). All of this has generated additional concern about the ability for BA to ship a working Prospero at spec. In other words, their ability to produce working product is still questionable.

Yeah, people are jaded toward BFL. BA was supposed to be different, but they have proven that they are not.

Some people (tracyhh) are taking this to the nth degree, but most people are just expressing frustration that is completely justified. If BA is a legitimate company, and I think that should be questioned, they are probably expressing commentary internally that is just as frustrated, if not more, about the numerous issues they have had. It's part of human nature, so don't complain about people complaining here. If someone doesn't like reading this they certainly don't have to. You won't find any useful information from BA unique to this forum, so there is no need to read it in order to keep up. bobsag3 has some information from time to time, so just read his posts and ignore the rest if you aren't interested.

In the mean time, hopefully this ongoing saga will be interesting for future potential customers if BA decides to attempt a second generation miner. It will give those potential customers a more realistic picture of what BA is capable of producing and in what time frame. In other words, lots of delays just like BFL, and possibly not even a fully functioning product. This should keep reasonable people from purchasing BA product in the future, therefore every complaint is worth the effort it takes to write it.

Ahhhhh! Now, we clearly what you did there, pretending to...  

[Majixagi]

This is some of the most masterful shilling I've ever read. If you're not getting some kind of financial compensation from BA for doing this, you're doing it wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

Bullshit PR spin is not about shoving rainbows and unicorns down peoples' incredulous throats, it's about writing the kind of thing you did.

You clearly struggle with the English language.

EDIT: Maybe the dots just aren't close enough together for some people to understand. I'll try to fix it for you:

BFL is US based which means it is easier to go after legally. This is happening. It gives people a sense of empowerment to be able to do something legally about the issue. BFL has been known to delay and fail for a long time now, but they have a longer history of eventually shipping a working product. Anyone buying in with them since the original ASICs knows that they will have a delay of some sort. BA is in China and tries to hide their personnel, so we have trouble finding a legal outlet.

BA claimed that they understood the BFL problem and told us that they would not repeat it. BA told us that the end of February was a very conservative shipping date that they would probably be able to easily beat. They obviously failed to deliver by a significant margin. They suck. BA has done a significantly worse job in the PR department than BFL by deflecting questions, refusing to provide straight talk about what is going on, and by constantly being caught in lies (or they are just terribly disorganized). All of this has generated additional concern about the ability for BA to ship a working Prospero at spec. In other words, their ability to produce working product is still questionable.

Yeah, people are jaded toward BFL. BA was supposed to be different, but they have proven that they are not.

Some people (tracyhh) are taking this to the nth degree, but most people are just expressing frustration that is completely justified. If BA is a legitimate company, and I think that should be questioned, they are probably expressing commentary internally that is just as frustrated, if not more, about the numerous issues they have had. It's part of human nature, so don't complain about people complaining here. If someone doesn't like reading this they certainly don't have to. You won't find any useful information from BA unique to this forum, so there is no need to read it in order to keep up. bobsag3 has some information from time to time, so just read his posts and ignore the rest if you aren't interested.

In the mean time, hopefully this ongoing saga will be interesting for future potential customers if BA decides to attempt a second generation miner. It will give those potential customers a more realistic picture of what BA is capable of producing and in what time frame. In other words, lots of delays just like BFL, and possibly not even a fully functioning product. This should keep reasonable people from purchasing BA product in the future, therefore every complaint is worth the effort it takes to write it.

Ahhhhh! Now, we clearly what you did there, pretending to...  

Huh? PG are you saying you don't understand me or something else? I'm starting to feel like I'm in some sort of alternative universe.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This is some of the most masterful shilling I've ever read. If you're not getting some kind of financial compensation from BA for doing this, you're doing it wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

Bullshit PR spin is not about shoving rainbows and unicorns down peoples' incredulous throats, it's about writing the kind of thing you did.

You clearly struggle with the English language.

EDIT: Maybe the dots just aren't close enough together for some people to understand. I'll try to fix it for you:

BFL is US based which means it is easier to go after legally. This is happening. It gives people a sense of empowerment to be able to do something legally about the issue. BFL has been known to delay and fail for a long time now, but they have a longer history of eventually shipping a working product. Anyone buying in with them since the original ASICs knows that they will have a delay of some sort. BA is in China and tries to hide their personnel, so we have trouble finding a legal outlet.

BA claimed that they understood the BFL problem and told us that they would not repeat it. BA told us that the end of February was a very conservative shipping date that they would probably be able to easily beat. They obviously failed to deliver by a significant margin. They suck. BA has done a significantly worse job in the PR department than BFL by deflecting questions, refusing to provide straight talk about what is going on, and by constantly being caught in lies (or they are just terribly disorganized). All of this has generated additional concern about the ability for BA to ship a working Prospero at spec. In other words, their ability to produce working product is still questionable.

Yeah, people are jaded toward BFL. BA was supposed to be different, but they have proven that they are not.

Some people (tracyhh) are taking this to the nth degree, but most people are just expressing frustration that is completely justified. If BA is a legitimate company, and I think that should be questioned, they are probably expressing commentary internally that is just as frustrated, if not more, about the numerous issues they have had. It's part of human nature, so don't complain about people complaining here. If someone doesn't like reading this they certainly don't have to. You won't find any useful information from BA unique to this forum, so there is no need to read it in order to keep up. bobsag3 has some information from time to time, so just read his posts and ignore the rest if you aren't interested.

In the mean time, hopefully this ongoing saga will be interesting for future potential customers if BA decides to attempt a second generation miner. It will give those potential customers a more realistic picture of what BA is capable of producing and in what time frame. In other words, lots of delays just like BFL, and possibly not even a fully functioning product. This should keep reasonable people from purchasing BA product in the future, therefore every complaint is worth the effort it takes to write it.

Ahhhhh! Now, we clearly what you did there, pretending to...  

Huh? PG are you saying you don't understand me or something else? I'm starting to feel like I'm in some sort of alternative universe.

The smileys should have been a clue that I'm in your camp, bud. Now, pass the hot dogs and marshmallows while the fire is still hot.  

[Majixagi]

The smileys should have been a clue that I'm in your camp, bud. Now, pass the hot dogs and marshmallows while the fire is still hot.  

Heh, thanks. Yeah I felt like I was teetering the line between being deleted or not and then suddenly accused of shilling. Strange place to be. Thought there was more stuff going around the fire than just dogs and marshmallows.

[MoneyMuscles]

I enquired about a refund and this is what I was sent:

To be transparent with our customers, and as your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

As the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

Notes:
We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.

However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

This is just friendly and honest answer to your refund query, The refund can be done only after we are able to ship the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

Wait for a refund will be until we ship our devices and then your refund can be processed and issued.

Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

[sirsmokesalot]

All my block eruptors are off-line and all my GPUs are going off-line tonight.

Thanks to Black Arrow I've lost thousands in this venture and I'm no longer in the mining business.

My block erupters went off line in january =-0

[nexus99]

All my block eruptors are off-line and all my GPUs are going off-line tonight.

Thanks to Black Arrow I've lost thousands in this venture and I'm no longer in the mining business.

If you have been using block eruptors and GPUs then you haven't actually been in the mining business for a while.

[poon-TANG]

All my block eruptors are off-line and all my GPUs are going off-line tonight.

Thanks to Black Arrow I've lost thousands in this venture and I'm no longer in the mining business.

If you have been using block eruptors and GPUs then you haven't actually been in the mining business for a while.

Like he said......